From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com [170.10.133.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E144B3EB807 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2026 15:28:40 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=170.10.133.124 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1776180526; cv=none; b=FmgH1AVbU4IU3Oip9xuzwcLKyxT9M+qzYrmIQLwePQghwRGg/9BmiyyyDWC0CAs0KYQRKNQhcblI+a3nv5yuxeqxDN42qqc60vN2FczWjWwTCTVHjvojLirqzE6rI5iMY2ZRF3cLm3YRcfE//jE66fhYcd5qdKLL7LmM2G/ItG8= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1776180526; c=relaxed/simple; bh=MzYVanG4BGpx9RDhwtBMmu174CqftxZMIG+S6GlO+jg=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=O+FyXkjH+/SistaqLgjDDTUKH8Uxtz720RuahpIsSdHCM+9PnpCMUrFlu9GjSedaGxxfCMGz6tpHIORbV4r210CB1nFFhMjuNPzoRbC5QSaahwd1POqnogFfCNcaznTV2CuycPZYf8qfhpJDc9kwNfgQ60bx2Tb7JOPQXVFjOuo= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=redhat.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=redhat.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b=c4cRofnk; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b=H1wYe296; arc=none smtp.client-ip=170.10.133.124 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=redhat.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=redhat.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b="c4cRofnk"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b="H1wYe296" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1776180519; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=/eTbXvKaxwhs+y3kG83ryFZztyaR2djpY/Q1BdL5kUs=; b=c4cRofnkLh+uLL/9hq+Cc80b+gCqbV+xYNuV2pnEA6omybBaMfbjVWCElS4zZv4KFHXqzd sI0gH4oVgRjpXqG19W6+7tJyKItU8sbCVC7cLLUwO4oFJtUEHK/2rQPPjT4oX2hDYZWvCu tOwy8tSkU4+OCp/Q++tgu+gzE60jMnA= Received: from mail-qk1-f197.google.com (mail-qk1-f197.google.com [209.85.222.197]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-574-ikxbVh6XPt-PZzPDIreg3Q-1; Tue, 14 Apr 2026 11:28:37 -0400 X-MC-Unique: ikxbVh6XPt-PZzPDIreg3Q-1 X-Mimecast-MFC-AGG-ID: ikxbVh6XPt-PZzPDIreg3Q_1776180517 Received: by mail-qk1-f197.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-8cfc1634e43so648834085a.0 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2026 08:28:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=google; t=1776180517; x=1776785317; darn=vger.kernel.org; h=in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :mime-version:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/eTbXvKaxwhs+y3kG83ryFZztyaR2djpY/Q1BdL5kUs=; b=H1wYe296HNX7HKnNKJvl1vNBgCdVB2ZMPmzIH+zqFRQoYZNZ5AGO14k4WOWFFd6ksG PmTqqXmPqHK0SY4rbq3GFKMNmwz4srGOEe2hfZL3BHNRLQmmcdkWGWFKXL8adjgJUc5c wdxikZlJMoRcplRmErrxl7CxpLoXapmfjpkz8guQC7quryf/j9se7nEz6l1sGe3UETIg b+lX0thq/2g/Pte9Lmhk7+t3jhVQyPWpE1R5/S/jWFtRG4xsg+3f8bNQ0l/mEZxf5YOr JYz32BO2lSktzEqU1NIAzN8VNX4NAs320IqqVvWQELUkDBp89y3ZglvuJwlmIiEgwsRE 03Xg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20251104; t=1776180517; x=1776785317; h=in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :mime-version:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-gg :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/eTbXvKaxwhs+y3kG83ryFZztyaR2djpY/Q1BdL5kUs=; b=WAwCRW6RGQl/ZhZDA2LtZkRff01Jywm3o97uSmtSXbQdissR6ehNI/A5RdC8EJRVBP GeRwJI8tVLT2GXuKYWdXOwONEYgQJx/XC5/pCuN344oPDChNj+KA/2+6G7p53q59QyUk SXQHkOsuRrJiFHRyP/YQ5ARUoBSDhfOPsO/aZRga9JMnTJxbtYi1rm2LK2d1kRFqE8vQ X530y6JPzfnKC/l0fsv1hT8S3npAJ8Ge8JMrQBnpC3XXeA0yfgsFCpBCpyzOodtQRaQv xB7f1kiVVew2im1Ob9Vc7Tx0SeLT/O6UcjC0sxKvIY+LtoqqfsEORElheHbxfXbRIaGF GSDQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AFNElJ8JiV9zWx38qOLUNsm7AQbvBHBKqXJfKUqwLgA+GICPH4QU4FcZ4S8i392rAZrX7c3746WLd5id7VI=@vger.kernel.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxj16/Zuhk/1mMQ16LYcDxvDaBlv1z4bpOkHaylhOrWMT2F0Jqd CcnFaCFEs41gfb72sf9EwDNLr+uGVpw+ObcE0hbuPou2C94n4/r7E13R98OTD6Wpwa87YKgswm3 DelYgxaK4w2kRmLVXitAulSeCO7V3euPYrXwNK1E7NB0NcY8fumOQH/hlRvWOmA== X-Gm-Gg: AeBDiev7YQUih7p4sLYN55hEAeMl1naX0tbSzHgs8kyJY5PXnbC/nqISCA8qDldGqMf xvf97VYBuurbu6Mk1IG+41zpAEbMfieIeNXGUJm/ge/8zfBi8pk8yDo8/nfzy5Nmi+w0s56DwYN C7seI9DsbrFL6zAX4VnQxzVZN5JWc9xJIvBpJblIwd2y8H6Or7BvydUbS/QUimVJuc0WpIjDyNX rB9482XVLclp9HEdq5qR+hy7txSCW8YF/2zDbFynpXe3diAV836CYLGTCrwD13pCLJm284Wi1V1 8O+TQXDL7MGkaG/RlIwwKyT0kC89t00F/BpbtGpAmKVm0fTrXO/rqJyaR5PEz9yO8emOu+vbFvk FADL67HgzHhxa5yoSk+Yj5/TUpIH2q42RS8i1e5zcHeoq7Ns= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4487:b0:8d6:2beb:9470 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-8ddcf8b07a9mr2656287185a.40.1776180517076; Tue, 14 Apr 2026 08:28:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4487:b0:8d6:2beb:9470 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-8ddcf8b07a9mr2656278685a.40.1776180516369; Tue, 14 Apr 2026 08:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x1.local ([142.189.10.167]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-8ddb963d7edsm1115242285a.39.2026.04.14.08.28.34 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 14 Apr 2026 08:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2026 11:28:33 -0400 From: Peter Xu To: "Kiryl Shutsemau (Meta)" Cc: Andrew Morton , David Hildenbrand , Lorenzo Stoakes , Mike Rapoport , Suren Baghdasaryan , Vlastimil Babka , "Liam R . Howlett" , Zi Yan , Jonathan Corbet , Shuah Khan , Sean Christopherson , Paolo Bonzini , linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, James Houghton , Andrea Arcangeli Subject: Re: [RFC, PATCH 00/12] userfaultfd: working set tracking for VM guest memory Message-ID: References: <20260414142354.1465950-1-kas@kernel.org> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20260414142354.1465950-1-kas@kernel.org> Hi, Kiryl, On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 03:23:34PM +0100, Kiryl Shutsemau (Meta) wrote: > This series adds userfaultfd support for tracking the working set of > VM guest memory, enabling VMMs to identify cold pages and evict them > to tiered or remote storage. Thanks for sharing this work, it looks very interesting to me. Personally I am also looking at some kind of VMM memtiering issues. I'm not sure if you saw my lsfmm proposal, it mentioned the challenge we're facing, it's slightly different but still a bit relevant: https://lore.kernel.org/all/aYuad2k75iD9bnBE@x1.local/ Unfortunately, that proposal was rejected upstream. For us, it's so far more about migration and how migration process introduce zero impact to guest workloads especially on hotness. I'm not sure if we have any shared goals over that aspect. > > == Problem == > > VMMs managing guest memory need to: > 1. Track which pages are actively used (working set detection) > 2. Safely evict cold pages to slower storage > 3. Fetch pages back on demand when accessed again > > For shmem-backed guest memory, working set tracking partially works > today: MADV_DONTNEED zaps PTEs while pages stay in page cache, and > re-access auto-resolves from cache. But safe eviction still requires > synchronous fault interception to prevent data loss races. > > For anonymous guest memory (needed for KSM cross-VM deduplication), > there is no mechanism at all — clearing a PTE loses the page. > > == Solution == > > The series introduces a unified userfaultfd interface that works > across both anonymous and shmem-backed memory: > > UFFD_FEATURE_MINOR_ANON: extends MODE_MINOR registration to anonymous > private memory. Uses the PROT_NONE hinting mechanism (same as NUMA > balancing) to make pages inaccessible without freeing them. > > UFFD_FEATURE_MINOR_ASYNC: auto-resolves minor faults without handler > involvement. The kernel restores PTE permissions immediately and the > faulting thread continues. Works for anonymous, shmem, and hugetlbfs. > > UFFDIO_DEACTIVATE: marks pages as deactivated. For anonymous memory, > sets PROT_NONE on PTEs (pages stay resident). For shmem/hugetlbfs, > zaps PTEs (pages stay in page cache). > > UFFDIO_SET_MODE: toggles MINOR_ASYNC at runtime, synchronized via > mmap_write_lock. Enables the VMM workflow: async mode for lightweight > detection, sync mode for race-free eviction. > > PAGE_IS_UFFD_DEACTIVATED: PAGEMAP_SCAN category flag for efficient > batch detection of cold (still-deactivated) anonymous pages. > > == VMM Workflow == AFAIU, this workflow provides two functionalities: > > UFFDIO_DEACTIVATE(all) -- async, no vCPU stalls > sleep(interval) > PAGEMAP_SCAN -- find cold pages Until here it's only about page hotness tracking. I am curious whether you evaluated idle page tracking. Is it because of perf overheads on rmap? To me, your solution (until here.. on the hotness sampling) reads more like a more efficient way to do idle page tracking but only per-mm, not per-folio. That will also be something I would like to benefit if QEMU will decide to do full userspace swap. I think that's our last resort, I'll likely start with something that makes QEMU work together with Linux on swapping (e.g. we're happy to make MGLRU or any reclaim logic that Linux mm currently uses, as long as efficient) then QEMU only cares about the rest, which is what the migration problem is about. The other issue about idle page tracking to us is, I believe MGLRU currently doesn't work well with it (due to ignoring IDLE bits) where the old LRU algo works. I'm not sure how much you evaluated above, so it'll be great to share from that perspective too. I also mentioned some of these challenges in the lsfmm proposal link above. > UFFDIO_SET_MODE(sync) -- block faults for eviction > pwrite + MADV_DONTNEED cold pages -- safe, faults block > UFFDIO_SET_MODE(async) -- resume tracking These operations are the 2nd function. It's, IMHO, a full userspace swap system based on userfaultfd. Have you thought about directly relying on userfaultfd-wp to do this work? The relevant question is, why do we need to block guest reads on pages being evicted by the userapp? Can we still allow that to happen, which seems to be more efficient? IIUC, only writes / updates matters in such swap system. Also, I'm not sure if you're aware of LLNL's umap library: https://github.com/llnl/umap That implemnted the swap system using userfaultfd wr-protect mode only, so no new kernel API needed. Thanks, > > The same workflow applies to shmem, with a different PAGEMAP_SCAN mask > (!PAGE_IS_PRESENT instead of PAGE_IS_UFFD_DEACTIVATED). > > == NUMA Balancing == > > NUMA balancing scanning is skipped on anonymous VM_UFFD_MINOR VMAs to > avoid protnone conflicts. NUMA locality stats are fed from the uffd > fault path via task_numa_fault() so the scheduler retains placement > data. Shmem VMAs are unaffected (UFFDIO_DEACTIVATE zaps PTEs there, > no protnone involved). > > == Testing == > > The series includes 6 new selftests covering async/sync modes, > PAGEMAP_SCAN cold detection, GUP through protnone, UFFDIO_SET_MODE > toggling, and cleanup on close. All 73 uffd unit tests pass > (including hugetlb) across defconfig, allnoconfig, allmodconfig, > and randomized configs. > > Kiryl Shutsemau (Meta) (12): > userfaultfd: define UAPI constants for anonymous minor faults > userfaultfd: add UFFD_FEATURE_MINOR_ANON registration support > userfaultfd: implement UFFDIO_DEACTIVATE ioctl > userfaultfd: UFFDIO_CONTINUE for anonymous memory > mm: intercept protnone faults on VM_UFFD_MINOR anonymous VMAs > userfaultfd: auto-resolve shmem and hugetlbfs minor faults in async > mode > sched/numa: skip scanning anonymous VM_UFFD_MINOR VMAs > userfaultfd: enable UFFD_FEATURE_MINOR_ANON > mm/pagemap: add PAGE_IS_UFFD_DEACTIVATED to PAGEMAP_SCAN > userfaultfd: add UFFDIO_SET_MODE for runtime sync/async toggle > selftests/mm: add userfaultfd anonymous minor fault tests > Documentation/userfaultfd: document working set tracking > > Documentation/admin-guide/mm/userfaultfd.rst | 141 ++++- > fs/proc/task_mmu.c | 11 +- > fs/userfaultfd.c | 184 +++++- > include/linux/huge_mm.h | 6 + > include/linux/mm.h | 2 + > include/linux/sched/numa_balancing.h | 1 + > include/linux/userfaultfd_k.h | 21 +- > include/trace/events/sched.h | 3 +- > include/uapi/linux/fs.h | 1 + > include/uapi/linux/userfaultfd.h | 40 +- > kernel/sched/fair.c | 13 + > mm/huge_memory.c | 33 +- > mm/hugetlb.c | 3 +- > mm/memory.c | 51 +- > mm/mprotect.c | 9 +- > mm/shmem.c | 3 +- > mm/userfaultfd.c | 164 +++++- > tools/testing/selftests/mm/uffd-unit-tests.c | 458 +++++++++++++++ > 18 files changed, 1096 insertions(+), 48 deletions(-) > > Kiryl Shutsemau (Meta) (12): > userfaultfd: define UAPI constants for anonymous minor faults > userfaultfd: add UFFD_FEATURE_MINOR_ANON registration support > userfaultfd: implement UFFDIO_DEACTIVATE ioctl > userfaultfd: UFFDIO_CONTINUE for anonymous memory > mm: intercept protnone faults on VM_UFFD_MINOR anonymous VMAs > userfaultfd: auto-resolve shmem and hugetlbfs minor faults in async > mode > sched/numa: skip scanning anonymous VM_UFFD_MINOR VMAs > userfaultfd: enable UFFD_FEATURE_MINOR_ANON > mm/pagemap: add PAGE_IS_UFFD_DEACTIVATED to PAGEMAP_SCAN > userfaultfd: add UFFDIO_SET_MODE for runtime sync/async toggle > selftests/mm: add userfaultfd anonymous minor fault tests > Documentation/userfaultfd: document working set tracking > > Documentation/admin-guide/mm/userfaultfd.rst | 141 +++++- > fs/proc/task_mmu.c | 11 +- > fs/userfaultfd.c | 184 +++++++- > include/linux/huge_mm.h | 6 + > include/linux/mm.h | 2 + > include/linux/sched/numa_balancing.h | 1 + > include/linux/userfaultfd_k.h | 21 +- > include/trace/events/sched.h | 3 +- > include/uapi/linux/fs.h | 1 + > include/uapi/linux/userfaultfd.h | 40 +- > kernel/sched/fair.c | 13 + > mm/huge_memory.c | 33 +- > mm/hugetlb.c | 3 +- > mm/memory.c | 51 ++- > mm/mprotect.c | 9 +- > mm/shmem.c | 3 +- > mm/userfaultfd.c | 164 ++++++- > tools/testing/selftests/mm/uffd-unit-tests.c | 458 +++++++++++++++++++ > 18 files changed, 1096 insertions(+), 48 deletions(-) > > -- > 2.51.2 > > -- Peter Xu