Linux Documentation
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Gregory Price <gourry@gourry.net>
To: Li Zhe <lizhe.67@bytedance.com>
Cc: akpm@linux-foundation.org, david@kernel.org, ziy@nvidia.com,
	 joshua.hahnjy@gmail.com, rakie.kim@sk.com,
	ying.huang@linux.alibaba.com, ljs@kernel.org,  mhocko@suse.com,
	muchun.song@linux.dev, roman.gushchin@linux.dev,
	 shakeel.butt@linux.dev, weixugc@google.com,
	cgroups@vger.kernel.org,  linux-doc@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org
Subject: Re: [RFC 0/2] mm: add source selectors to memory.reclaim
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2026 12:10:40 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <atY-LD2AzCYATRii@gourry-fedora-PF4VCD3F> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20261019141401.11927-1-lizhe.67@bytedance.com>

On Mon, Oct 19, 2026 at 10:13:59PM +0800, Li Zhe wrote:
> memory.reclaim is a useful proactive reclaim interface for memcgs, but
> tiered memory makes "reclaim N bytes from this memcg" underspecified for
> userspace controllers that manage memory placement across tiers. The
> kernel's reclaim policy is aging-based, and on tiered systems aging may
> demote folios before they are eventually evicted. Without a way to
> declare where reclaim pressure should start, userspace can only reclaim
> from the memcg as a whole and observe one aggregate progress value.

This is not a good argument for pushing the complexity of managing tiers
into userspace - it is an argument for fixing the reclaim interface to
handle demotion and eviction sanely - which presently we do not do.

My best examples:
  1) the watermarks don't make sense for lower tiers that need to absorb
     large amounts of demotions from upper tiers.  It's likely lower
     tiers need larger WMARK_PROMO to let low-tier kswapd run longer.

  2) proactive and async reclaim current reclaim top-down, which results
     in swapping directly from top-tiers because lower tiers don't have
     space to absorb demotions.  We should experiment with async /
     proactive reclaim applying bottom-up (lowest tier first) so aging
     the top-tiers demotes into lower tiers more successfully.

     direct reclaim should stay top-down because we want the best page
     with the least work to minimize stalls.

I have a strong suspicion if we made these change, then memcg.reclaim
would work more or less the way you'd want - and anything else can be
managed more directly with madvise/process_madvise.

I also have concerns with extending memory.reclaim this way permanently
locking in reclaim implementation details that prevent us from making
changes like this in the future.

~Gregory

  parent reply	other threads:[~2026-10-19 16:10 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 9+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-10-19 14:13 [RFC 0/2] mm: add source selectors to memory.reclaim Li Zhe
2026-10-19 14:14 ` [RFC 1/2] mm: add source selector " Li Zhe
2026-10-19 14:51   ` Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)
2026-10-20  8:36     ` Li Zhe
2026-10-19 14:14 ` [RFC 2/2] mm: add tier " Li Zhe
2026-10-19 15:21 ` [RFC 0/2] mm: add source selectors " Joshua Hahn
2026-10-20  9:06   ` Li Zhe
2026-10-19 16:10 ` Gregory Price [this message]
2026-10-20 13:01   ` Li Zhe

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=atY-LD2AzCYATRii@gourry-fedora-PF4VCD3F \
    --to=gourry@gourry.net \
    --cc=akpm@linux-foundation.org \
    --cc=cgroups@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=david@kernel.org \
    --cc=joshua.hahnjy@gmail.com \
    --cc=linux-doc@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-mm@kvack.org \
    --cc=lizhe.67@bytedance.com \
    --cc=ljs@kernel.org \
    --cc=mhocko@suse.com \
    --cc=muchun.song@linux.dev \
    --cc=rakie.kim@sk.com \
    --cc=roman.gushchin@linux.dev \
    --cc=shakeel.butt@linux.dev \
    --cc=weixugc@google.com \
    --cc=ying.huang@linux.alibaba.com \
    --cc=ziy@nvidia.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox