2013 Plumber's CFP: Fastboot

2013 Plumber's CFP: Fastboot

[Mehaffey, John]

Hello All,

I am proposing a microconference on fastboot at the Linux Plumber's conference 2013 in New Orleans. The goal is to get to sub 1S boot times for a large (IVI) system using NAND flash. This pushes the state of the art, and will require innovative solutions in may areas of Linux plumbing, including bootloader, kernel init, UBI, and systemd.

Note that fastboot improvements will (generally) help all architectures so I am not limiting this to automotive systems.

Please visit http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:fastboot for more information or if you want to submit a topic.

If you want to reply to this message, please trim the cc list!

Sincerely,
John Mehaffey
Senior System Architect (Automotive)
Mentor Graphics Corporation

Re: [U-Boot] 2013 Plumber's CFP: Fastboot

[Thomas Petazzoni]

Dear Mehaffey, John,

On Mon, 13 May 2013 23:51:46 +0000, Mehaffey, John wrote:

> I am proposing a microconference on fastboot at the Linux Plumber's
> conference 2013 in New Orleans. The goal is to get to sub 1S boot
> times for a large (IVI) system using NAND flash. This pushes the
> state of the art, and will require innovative solutions in may areas
> of Linux plumbing, including bootloader, kernel init, UBI, and
> systemd.

Beware that the 'fastboot' you're talking about (making Linux boot
fast), especially written this way, may easily be confused with
'fastboot', which is the Android-specific protocol to flash a system
through USB (see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_software_development#Fastboot).

Besides this minor comment, I'm looking forward for the notes of this
discussion on this very interesting topic.

Best regards,

Thomas
-- 
Thomas Petazzoni, Free Electrons
Kernel, drivers, real-time and embedded Linux
development, consulting, training and support.
http://free-electrons.com

Re: 2013 Plumber's CFP: Fastboot

[richard -rw- weinberger]

On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Mehaffey, John
<John_Mehaffey@mentor.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I am proposing a microconference on fastboot at the Linux Plumber's conference 2013 in New Orleans. The goal is to get to sub 1S boot times for a large (IVI) system using NAND flash. This pushes the state of the art, and will require innovative solutions in may areas of Linux plumbing, including bootloader, kernel init, UBI, and systemd.
>
> Note that fastboot improvements will (generally) help all architectures so I am not limiting this to automotive systems.
>
> Please visit http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:fastboot for more information or if you want to submit a topic.
>
> If you want to reply to this message, please trim the cc list!

Why trimming the CC? Changing the CC list is a _very_ bad habit.

Anyway, a few notes on UBI fastmap.
Before we talk about optimizing it we have to make sure that it is stable.
Currently it has not much users because embedded folks are a few
kernel releases behind.
I expect that we'll face some issues (hey it's software!). Instead of
making the code more complicated we have to
make very sure that it works well.
Fastmap got much more complicated than I thought while developing the
first proof of concept implementation.

We also have to think more about userland support, e.g. making tools
like ubinize fastmap aware...
User want ready to use fastmap UBI images and not images which have to
be converted by the kernel on the very first boot.

Sharing UBI EBA table between U-Boot and the kernel would be a nice
feature, but we also have to make sure
that we can share the EBA table between two kernels (think of kexec).
So, a more general solution is needed.

--
Thanks,
//richard

RE: 2013 Plumber's CFP: Fastboot

[Mehaffey, John]

> From: richard -rw- weinberger [richard.weinberger@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:10 AM
> To: Mehaffey, John
> Cc: tim.bird@am.sony.com; wd@denx.de; mzjro@0pointer.net; Kay.Sievers@vrfy.org; Pomerantz, Brian; yoush@cs.msu.su; u-boot@lists.denx.de; genivi-dev@mail.genivi.org; systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org; celinux-dev@lists.celinuxforum.org; linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org; linux-embedded@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Re: 2013 Plumber's CFP: Fastboot
> 
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Mehaffey, John
> <John_Mehaffey@mentor.com> wrote:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I am proposing a microconference on fastboot at the Linux Plumber's conference 2013 in New Orleans. The goal is to get to sub 1S boot times for a large (IVI) system using NAND flash. This pushes the state of the art, and will require innovative solutions in may areas of Linux plumbing, including bootloader, kernel init, UBI, and systemd.
> >
> > Note that fastboot improvements will (generally) help all architectures so I am not limiting this to automotive systems.
> >
> > Please visit http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:fastboot for more information or if you want to submit a topic.
> >
> > If you want to reply to this message, please trim the cc list!
> 
> Why trimming the CC? Changing the CC list is a _very_ bad habit.

Thanks for the advice.

> Anyway, a few notes on UBI fastmap.
> Before we talk about optimizing it we have to make sure that it is stable.
> Currently it has not much users because embedded folks are a few
> kernel releases behind.
> I expect that we'll face some issues (hey it's software!). Instead of
> making the code more complicated we have to
> make very sure that it works well.
> Fastmap got much more complicated than I thought while developing the
> first proof of concept implementation.

This is good software practice, but is out of scope for this uconf. Fastmap will be getting more usage in the future as systems deploy using it.

I think that low-hanging fruit to speed things up, such as Brian's RB-tree lookup, can proceed in parallel with testing and stabilization (hey, it's open-source software :)

> We also have to think more about userland support, e.g. making tools
> like ubinize fastmap aware...
> User want ready to use fastmap UBI images and not images which have to
> be converted by the kernel on the very first boot.
> 
> Sharing UBI EBA table between U-Boot and the kernel would be a nice
> feature, but we also have to make sure
> that we can share the EBA table between two kernels (think of kexec).
> So, a more general solution is needed.
> 
> --
> Thanks,
> //richard

Thanks for your feedback, I agree that these are things that should also be looked at!

-mehaf

Re: 2013 Plumber's CFP: Fastboot

[Jeremiah Foster]

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On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Mehaffey, John <John_Mehaffey@mentor.com>wrote:

> Hello All,
>

Hey John!


> I am proposing a microconference on fastboot at the Linux Plumber's
> conference 2013 in New Orleans. The goal is to get to sub 1S boot times for
> a large (IVI) system using NAND flash. This pushes the state of the art,
> and will require innovative solutions in may areas of Linux plumbing,
> including bootloader, kernel init, UBI, and systemd.
>
> Note that fastboot improvements will (generally) help all architectures so
> I am not limiting this to automotive systems.
>
> Please visit http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:fastboot for more
> information or if you want to submit a topic.
>

I've linked to your micrconference from the automotive microconference:
http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:automotive

I'm a bit confused about the LPC format though. John, is it planned to have
the non-Android fastboot discussion as part of the automotive
microconference or is this separate (despite its automotive relevance.) I
ask because it might be nice to have the participants in both
microconferences and it would be a shame to lose attendees to one or the
other if they're competing tracks.

Can someone clue me in to the microconference format as regards LPC?

Thanks,

Jeremiah

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Re: [systemd-devel] 2013 Plumber's CFP: Fastboot

[Lennart Poettering]

On Wed, 15.05.13 11:43, Jeremiah Foster (jeremiah.foster@pelagicore.com) wrote:

> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Mehaffey, John <John_Mehaffey@mentor.com>wrote:
> 
> > Hello All,
> >
> 
> Hey John!
> 
> 
> > I am proposing a microconference on fastboot at the Linux Plumber's
> > conference 2013 in New Orleans. The goal is to get to sub 1S boot times for
> > a large (IVI) system using NAND flash. This pushes the state of the art,
> > and will require innovative solutions in may areas of Linux plumbing,
> > including bootloader, kernel init, UBI, and systemd.
> >
> > Note that fastboot improvements will (generally) help all architectures so
> > I am not limiting this to automotive systems.
> >
> > Please visit http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:fastboot for more
> > information or if you want to submit a topic.
> >
> 
> I've linked to your micrconference from the automotive microconference:
> http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:automotive
> 
> I'm a bit confused about the LPC format though. John, is it planned to have
> the non-Android fastboot discussion as part of the automotive
> microconference or is this separate (despite its automotive relevance.) I
> ask because it might be nice to have the participants in both
> microconferences and it would be a shame to lose attendees to one or the
> other if they're competing tracks.
> 
> Can someone clue me in to the microconference format as regards LPC?


BTW, there's also this MC we proposed:

http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:boot_and_core_os

which sounds pretty close to fastboot?

Lennart

-- 
Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.

Re: [systemd-devel] 2013 Plumber's CFP: Fastboot

[Lucas De Marchi]

On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Lennart Poettering
<mzxreary@0pointer.de> wrote:
> On Wed, 15.05.13 11:43, Jeremiah Foster (jeremiah.foster@pelagicore.com) wrote:
>
>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Mehaffey, John <John_Mehaffey@mentor.com>wrote:
>>
>> > Hello All,
>> >
>>
>> Hey John!
>>
>>
>> > I am proposing a microconference on fastboot at the Linux Plumber's
>> > conference 2013 in New Orleans. The goal is to get to sub 1S boot times for
>> > a large (IVI) system using NAND flash. This pushes the state of the art,
>> > and will require innovative solutions in may areas of Linux plumbing,
>> > including bootloader, kernel init, UBI, and systemd.
>> >
>> > Note that fastboot improvements will (generally) help all architectures so
>> > I am not limiting this to automotive systems.
>> >
>> > Please visit http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:fastboot for more
>> > information or if you want to submit a topic.
>> >
>>
>> I've linked to your micrconference from the automotive microconference:
>> http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:automotive
>>
>> I'm a bit confused about the LPC format though. John, is it planned to have
>> the non-Android fastboot discussion as part of the automotive
>> microconference or is this separate (despite its automotive relevance.) I
>> ask because it might be nice to have the participants in both
>> microconferences and it would be a shame to lose attendees to one or the
>> other if they're competing tracks.
>>
>> Can someone clue me in to the microconference format as regards LPC?
>
>
> BTW, there's also this MC we proposed:
>
> http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:boot_and_core_os
>
> which sounds pretty close to fastboot?
>

What if we merge the proposals?

John, are you ok with proposing (some of) these topics in the "Boot
and Core OS" track? I could help with the module-related part, too.


Lucas De Marchi

Re: 2013 Plumber's CFP: Fastboot

[Jeremiah Foster]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1592 bytes --]

On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Lucas De Marchi
<lucas.de.marchi@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Lennart Poettering
> <mzxreary@0pointer.de> wrote:
> > On Wed, 15.05.13 11:43, Jeremiah Foster (jeremiah.foster@pelagicore.com)
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Mehaffey, John <
> John_Mehaffey@mentor.com>wrote:
> >>
> >> > Please visit http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:fastboot for more
> >> > information or if you want to submit a topic.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I've linked to your micrconference from the automotive microconference:
> >> http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:automotive
> >>
> >> I'm a bit confused about the LPC format though. John, is it planned to
> have
> >> the non-Android fastboot discussion as part of the automotive
> >> microconference or is this separate (despite its automotive relevance.)
> I
> >> ask because it might be nice to have the participants in both
> >> microconferences and it would be a shame to lose attendees to one or the
> >> other if they're competing tracks.
> >>
> >> Can someone clue me in to the microconference format as regards LPC?
> >
> >
> > BTW, there's also this MC we proposed:
> >
> > http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:boot_and_core_os
> >
> > which sounds pretty close to fastboot?
> >
>
> What if we merge the proposals?
>

+1

>
> John, are you ok with proposing (some of) these topics in the "Boot
> and Core OS" track? I could help with the module-related part, too.


A merge would help with attendance I believe, without significantly hurting
topic coverage.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

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RE: [systemd-devel] 2013 Plumber's CFP: Fastboot

[Mehaffey, John]

> From: Lucas De Marchi [lucas.de.marchi@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 7:04 AM
>  
> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Lennart Poettering
> <mzxreary@0pointer.de> wrote:
> > On Wed, 15.05.13 11:43, Jeremiah Foster (jeremiah.foster@pelagicore.com) wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Mehaffey, John <John_Mehaffey@mentor.com>wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hello All,
> >> >
> >>
> >> Hey John!
> >>
> >>
> >> > I am proposing a microconference on fastboot at the Linux Plumber's
> >> > conference 2013 in New Orleans. The goal is to get to sub 1S boot times for
> >> > a large (IVI) system using NAND flash. This pushes the state of the art,
> >> > and will require innovative solutions in may areas of Linux plumbing,
> >> > including bootloader, kernel init, UBI, and systemd.
> >> >
> >> > Note that fastboot improvements will (generally) help all architectures so
> >> > I am not limiting this to automotive systems.
> >> >
> >> > Please visit http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:fastboot for more
> >> > information or if you want to submit a topic.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I've linked to your micrconference from the automotive microconference:
> >> http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:automotive
> >>
> >> I'm a bit confused about the LPC format though. John, is it planned to have
> >> the non-Android fastboot discussion as part of the automotive
> >> microconference or is this separate (despite its automotive relevance.) I
> >> ask because it might be nice to have the participants in both
> >> microconferences and it would be a shame to lose attendees to one or the
> >> other if they're competing tracks.
> >>
> >> Can someone clue me in to the microconference format as regards LPC?
> >
> >
> > BTW, there's also this MC we proposed:
> >
> > http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:boot_and_core_os
> >
> > which sounds pretty close to fastboot?
> >
> 
> What if we merge the proposals?
> 
> John, are you ok with proposing (some of) these topics in the "Boot
> and Core OS" track? I could help with the module-related part, too.
> 
> 
> Lucas De Marchi

Hi Lucas, Lennart,
I am fine with merging the two boot related sessions.  I did not want to have it be a topic in the automotive microconf, as I believe there is enough material for a couple of hours on fastboot alone.

It was not clear to me what topics might be in the boot and core os microconf, so I proposed fastboot as separate.

Jeremiah, you bring up a good point about overlapping interest, probably when a proposal is accepted, we will need to point out potential scheduling conflicts with other accepted microconfs to the program committee.

Sincerely,
John Mehaffey
Senior System Architect (Automotive)
Mentor Graphics Corporation

Re: [systemd-devel] 2013 Plumber's CFP: Fastboot

[Lennart Poettering]

On Wed, 15.05.13 15:01, Mehaffey, John (John_Mehaffey@mentor.com) wrote:

> > What if we merge the proposals?
> > 
> > John, are you ok with proposing (some of) these topics in the "Boot
> > and Core OS" track? I could help with the module-related part, too.
> > 
> > 
> > Lucas De Marchi
> 
> Hi Lucas, Lennart,
> I am fine with merging the two boot related sessions.  I did not want to have it be a topic in the automotive microconf, as I believe there is enough material for a couple of hours on fastboot alone.
> 
> It was not clear to me what topics might be in the boot and core os microconf, so I proposed fastboot as separate.

Let's merge this then (the LPC guys want this to).

We could copy the stuff from the fastboot MC wiki page into the
boot/core OS wiki page, or the other way round. And preference? I'd
still call this "Boot and Core OS MC" as this has the slightler broader
topic, I guess...

Lennart

-- 
Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.

RE: [systemd-devel] 2013 Plumber's CFP: Fastboot

[Mehaffey, John]

> From: Lennart Poettering [mzxreary@0pointer.de]
> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:33 AM
> On Wed, 15.05.13 15:01, Mehaffey, John (John_Mehaffey@mentor.com) wrote:
> 
> > > What if we merge the proposals?
> > >
> > > John, are you ok with proposing (some of) these topics in the "Boot
> > > and Core OS" track? I could help with the module-related part, too.
> > >
> > >
> > > Lucas De Marchi
> >
> > Hi Lucas, Lennart,
> > I am fine with merging the two boot related sessions.  I did not want to have it be a topic in the automotive microconf, as I believe there is enough material for a couple of hours on fastboot alone.
> >
> > It was not clear to me what topics might be in the boot and core os microconf, so I proposed fastboot as separate.
> 
> Let's merge this then (the LPC guys want this to).
> 
> We could copy the stuff from the fastboot MC wiki page into the
> boot/core OS wiki page, or the other way round. And preference? I'd
> still call this "Boot and Core OS MC" as this has the slightler broader
> topic, I guess...
> 
> Lennart
> 
> --
> Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.

Hi Lennart,
I have merged the topics from the fastboot proposal to the Boot and Core OS proposal.

Please take a look and make any improvements.

I am keeping the fastboot proposal on the wiki as reference material for now, but I have linked it to the Boot and Core OS page.

-mehaf