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From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
To: Jens Axboe <jens.axboe@oracle.com>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>,
	Linux Kernel Developers List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Ext4 Developers List <linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] Ext3 latency fixes
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 22:18:20 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090404201820.GA18067@elte.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090404173412.GF5178@kernel.dk>


* Jens Axboe <jens.axboe@oracle.com> wrote:

> > Quite frankly, the fact that I can see _seconds_ of latencies 
> > with a really good SSD is not acceptable. The fact that it is by 
> > design is even less so.
> 
> Agree, multi-second latencies is not acceptable.

btw., just to insert some hard data: usability studies place the 
acceptance threshold for delays to around 300 milliseconds.

If the computer does not 'respond' (in a real or a fake, visible or 
audible way) to their input within 0.3 seconds they get annoyed 
emotionally.

It does not matter how complex it is for the kernel to solve this 
problem, it does not matter how far away and difficult to access the 
data is. If we are not absolutely latency centric in Linux, if we 
spuriously delay apps that do supposedly simple-looking things the 
user _will_ get annoyed and _will_ pick another OS.

All things considered it is certainly a combined kernel and app 
problem space to get there, but not being completely aware of its 
importance in the kernel kills any chance of us ever having a 
long-term solution.

	Ingo

  parent reply	other threads:[~2009-04-04 20:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 69+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-04-03  7:01 [GIT PULL] Ext3 latency fixes Theodore Ts'o
2009-04-03  7:01 ` [PATCH 1/4] block_write_full_page: Use synchronous writes for WBC_SYNC_ALL writebacks Theodore Ts'o
2009-04-03  7:01   ` [PATCH 2/4] ext3: Use WRITE_SYNC for commits which are caused by fsync() Theodore Ts'o
2009-04-03  7:01     ` [PATCH 3/4] ext3: Add replace-on-truncate hueristics for data=writeback mode Theodore Ts'o
2009-04-03  7:01       ` [PATCH 4/4] ext3: Add replace-on-rename " Theodore Ts'o
2009-04-03 15:01 ` EXT4 in embedded systems Nick Hennenfent (nhennefe)
2009-04-03 16:06   ` Eric Sandeen
2009-04-03 17:15     ` Nick Hennenfent (nhennefe)
2009-04-03 18:24 ` [GIT PULL] Ext3 latency fixes Linus Torvalds
2009-04-03 18:47   ` Jens Axboe
2009-04-03 19:13     ` Theodore Tso
2009-04-03 21:01     ` Chris Mason
2009-04-03 19:02   ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-03 20:41     ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-04 13:57       ` Theodore Tso
2009-04-04 15:16         ` Jens Axboe
2009-04-04 15:57           ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-04 16:06             ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-04 17:36               ` Jens Axboe
2009-04-04 17:34             ` Jens Axboe
2009-04-04 17:44               ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-04 18:00                 ` Trenton D. Adams
2009-04-04 18:01                 ` Jens Axboe
2009-04-04 18:10                   ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-04 23:22                   ` Theodore Tso
2009-04-04 23:33                     ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-04-05  0:10                       ` Theodore Tso
2009-04-05 15:05                         ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-04-05 17:01                         ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-05 17:15                           ` Mark Lord
2009-04-05 20:57                             ` Jeff Garzik
2009-04-05 23:48                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-04-06  2:32                                 ` Mark Lord
2009-04-06  5:47                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2009-04-07 18:18                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-07 18:22                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-06  8:13                             ` Jens Axboe
2009-04-05 18:56                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-04-05 19:34                             ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-05 20:06                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-04-06  6:25                               ` Jens Axboe
2009-04-06  6:05                           ` Theodore Tso
2009-04-06  6:23                           ` Jens Axboe
2009-04-06  8:16                       ` Jens Axboe
2009-04-06 14:48                         ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-06 15:09                           ` Jens Axboe
2009-04-06  6:15                     ` Jens Axboe
2009-04-04 20:18               ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2009-04-06 21:50                 ` Lennart Sorensen
2009-04-07 13:31                   ` Mark Lord
2009-04-07 14:48                     ` Lennart Sorensen
2009-04-07 19:21                       ` Mark Lord
2009-04-07 19:57                         ` Lennart Sorensen
2009-04-04 20:56               ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-04-06  7:06                 ` Jens Axboe
2009-04-07 15:39             ` Indan Zupancic
2009-04-04 19:18           ` Theodore Tso
2009-04-06  8:12             ` Jens Axboe
2009-04-04 22:13         ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-04 22:19           ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-05  0:20           ` Theodore Tso
2009-04-03 19:54   ` Theodore Tso
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2009-04-08 23:40 Theodore Ts'o
2009-04-09 15:49 ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-09 16:23   ` Chris Mason
2009-04-09 17:49     ` Jan Kara
2009-04-09 18:10       ` Chris Mason
2009-04-09 19:04         ` Jan Kara
2009-04-09 17:36   ` Jan Kara

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