* [PATCH] Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt @ 2009-05-18 20:22 Andrew Clayton 2009-05-19 14:35 ` Eric Sandeen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Andrew Clayton @ 2009-05-18 20:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: linux-ext4 Update the ext3 document with the fact that data=writeback is now the default journaling mode. Signed-off-by: Andrew Clayton <andrew@digital-domain.net> --- linux-2.6/Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt.orig 2009-05-18 20:48:27.084220753 +0100 +++ linux-2.6/Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt 2009-05-18 20:49:01.023225288 +0100 @@ -39,11 +39,11 @@ data=journal All data are committed into the journal prior to being written into the main file system. -data=ordered (*) All data are forced directly out to the main file +data=ordered All data are forced directly out to the main file system prior to its metadata being committed to the journal. -data=writeback Data ordering is not preserved, data may be written +data=writeback (*) Data ordering is not preserved, data may be written into the main file system after its metadata has been committed to the journal. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH] Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt 2009-05-18 20:22 [PATCH] Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt Andrew Clayton @ 2009-05-19 14:35 ` Eric Sandeen 2009-05-19 16:03 ` Andrew Clayton 0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Eric Sandeen @ 2009-05-19 14:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andrew Clayton; +Cc: linux-ext4 Andrew Clayton wrote: > Update the ext3 document with the fact that data=writeback is now the > default journaling mode. > > > Signed-off-by: Andrew Clayton <andrew@digital-domain.net> > > --- linux-2.6/Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt.orig 2009-05-18 20:48:27.084220753 +0100 > +++ linux-2.6/Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt 2009-05-18 20:49:01.023225288 +0100 > @@ -39,11 +39,11 @@ > data=journal All data are committed into the journal prior to being > written into the main file system. > > -data=ordered (*) All data are forced directly out to the main file > +data=ordered All data are forced directly out to the main file > system prior to its metadata being committed to the > journal. > > -data=writeback Data ordering is not preserved, data may be written > +data=writeback (*) Data ordering is not preserved, data may be written > into the main file system after its metadata has been > committed to the journal. If we're updating this documentation, while we're at it we should add that the default is actually controlled by a new kernel config option, and also something along the lines of "this mode will produce file corruption on a power loss or unclean shutdown, and may lead to unintentional information disclosure." -Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH] Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt 2009-05-19 14:35 ` Eric Sandeen @ 2009-05-19 16:03 ` Andrew Clayton 2009-05-19 16:16 ` Eric Sandeen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Andrew Clayton @ 2009-05-19 16:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric Sandeen; +Cc: linux-ext4 On Tue, 19 May 2009 09:35:16 -0500, Eric Sandeen wrote: > Andrew Clayton wrote: > > Update the ext3 document with the fact that data=writeback is now > > the default journaling mode. > > > > > > Signed-off-by: Andrew Clayton <andrew@digital-domain.net> > > > > --- linux-2.6/Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt.orig > > 2009-05-18 20:48:27.084220753 +0100 +++ > > linux-2.6/Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt 2009-05-18 > > 20:49:01.023225288 +0100 @@ -39,11 +39,11 @@ > > data=journal All data are committed into the journal > > prior to being written into the main file system. > > -data=ordered (*) All data are forced directly out to > > the main file +data=ordered All data are forced > > directly out to the main file system prior to its metadata being > > committed to the journal. > > > > -data=writeback Data ordering is not preserved, data > > may be written +data=writeback (*) Data ordering is > > not preserved, data may be written into the main file system after > > its metadata has been committed to the journal. > > If we're updating this documentation, while we're at it we should add > that the default is actually controlled by a new kernel config option, > and also something along the lines of "this mode will produce file > corruption on a power loss or unclean shutdown, and may lead to > unintentional information disclosure." Sure, the data problem is actually eluded to further down the document where I've expanded it slightly and chat about the default writeback vs ordered mode. Hows the below? > -Eric Update the ext3 document with the fact that data=writeback is now the default journaling mode and mention that the default can be turned back to ordered mode via CONFIG_EXT3_DEFAULTS_TO_ORDERED Also slightly expand upon the problems with writeback mode and possible file corruption and information disclosures as noted by Eric Sandeen Signed-off-by: Andrew Clayton <andrew@digital-domain.net> --- ext3.txt.orig 2009-05-19 16:31:17.000000000 +0100 +++ ext3.txt 2009-05-19 16:59:35.000000000 +0100 @@ -39,11 +39,11 @@ data=journal All data are committed into the journal prior to being written into the main file system. -data=ordered (*) All data are forced directly out to the main file +data=ordered All data are forced directly out to the main file system prior to its metadata being committed to the journal. -data=writeback Data ordering is not preserved, data may be written +data=writeback (*) Data ordering is not preserved, data may be written into the main file system after its metadata has been committed to the journal. @@ -160,16 +160,19 @@ There are 3 different data modes: * writeback mode -In data=writeback mode, ext3 does not journal data at all. This mode provides -a similar level of journaling as that of XFS, JFS, and ReiserFS in its default -mode - metadata journaling. A crash+recovery can cause incorrect data to -appear in files which were written shortly before the crash. This mode will -typically provide the best ext3 performance. +If no mode is explicitly set then this is the default mode. In data=writeback +mode, ext3 does not journal data at all. This mode provides a similar level of +journaling as that of XFS, JFS, and ReiserFS in its default mode - metadata +journaling. A crash+recovery can cause file corruption and may lead to +sensitve data to appear in files which were written shortly before the crash. +This mode will typically provide the best ext3 performance. * ordered mode -In data=ordered mode, ext3 only officially journals metadata, but it logically -groups metadata and data blocks into a single unit called a transaction. When -it's time to write the new metadata out to disk, the associated data blocks +This mode can be made the default via the kernel config option +CONFIG_EXT3_DEFAULTS_TO_ORDERED. In data=ordered mode, ext3 only officially +journals metadata, but it logically groups metadata and data blocks into a +single unit called a transaction. +When it's time to write the new metadata out to disk, the associated data blocks are written first. In general, this mode performs slightly slower than writeback but significantly faster than journal mode. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH] Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt 2009-05-19 16:03 ` Andrew Clayton @ 2009-05-19 16:16 ` Eric Sandeen 2009-05-19 17:49 ` Andrew Clayton 0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Eric Sandeen @ 2009-05-19 16:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andrew Clayton; +Cc: linux-ext4 Andrew Clayton wrote: > On Tue, 19 May 2009 09:35:16 -0500, Eric Sandeen wrote: > >> Andrew Clayton wrote: >>> Update the ext3 document with the fact that data=writeback is now >>> the default journaling mode. >>> >>> >>> Signed-off-by: Andrew Clayton <andrew@digital-domain.net> >>> >>> --- linux-2.6/Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt.orig >>> 2009-05-18 20:48:27.084220753 +0100 +++ >>> linux-2.6/Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt 2009-05-18 >>> 20:49:01.023225288 +0100 @@ -39,11 +39,11 @@ >>> data=journal All data are committed into the journal >>> prior to being written into the main file system. >>> -data=ordered (*) All data are forced directly out to >>> the main file +data=ordered All data are forced >>> directly out to the main file system prior to its metadata being >>> committed to the journal. >>> >>> -data=writeback Data ordering is not preserved, data >>> may be written +data=writeback (*) Data ordering is >>> not preserved, data may be written into the main file system after >>> its metadata has been committed to the journal. >> If we're updating this documentation, while we're at it we should add >> that the default is actually controlled by a new kernel config option, >> and also something along the lines of "this mode will produce file >> corruption on a power loss or unclean shutdown, and may lead to >> unintentional information disclosure." > > Sure, the data problem is actually eluded to further down the document > where I've expanded it slightly and chat about the default writeback vs > ordered mode. > > Hows the below? sounds better, minor nitpicks below >> -Eric > > Update the ext3 document with the fact that data=writeback is now > the default journaling mode and mention that the default can be turned > back to ordered mode via CONFIG_EXT3_DEFAULTS_TO_ORDERED > > Also slightly expand upon the problems with writeback mode and possible > file corruption and information disclosures as noted by Eric Sandeen > > Signed-off-by: Andrew Clayton <andrew@digital-domain.net> > > --- ext3.txt.orig 2009-05-19 16:31:17.000000000 +0100 > +++ ext3.txt 2009-05-19 16:59:35.000000000 +0100 > @@ -39,11 +39,11 @@ > data=journal All data are committed into the journal prior to being > written into the main file system. > > -data=ordered (*) All data are forced directly out to the main file > +data=ordered All data are forced directly out to the main file > system prior to its metadata being committed to the > journal. > > -data=writeback Data ordering is not preserved, data may be written > +data=writeback (*) Data ordering is not preserved, data may be written > into the main file system after its metadata has been > committed to the journal. I guess I'd still rather see a "see below" or something here, because I think this is a critical change. Perhaps you can tell I have a slight agenda ;) I think writeback as default is a terrible choice, and at least full disclosure of risks is in order.... > @@ -160,16 +160,19 @@ > There are 3 different data modes: > > * writeback mode > -In data=writeback mode, ext3 does not journal data at all. This mode provides > -a similar level of journaling as that of XFS, JFS, and ReiserFS in its default > -mode - metadata journaling. A crash+recovery can cause incorrect data to > -appear in files which were written shortly before the crash. This mode will > -typically provide the best ext3 performance. > +If no mode is explicitly set then this is the default mode. In data=writeback > +mode, ext3 does not journal data at all. This mode provides a similar level of > +journaling as that of XFS, JFS, and ReiserFS in its default mode - metadata > +journaling. A crash+recovery can cause file corruption and may lead to > +sensitve data to appear in files which were written shortly before the crash. > +This mode will typically provide the best ext3 performance. I'd do something like: --- If no mode is explicitly set then this is the default mode. In data=writeback mode, ext3 does not journal data at all. This mode provides a similar level of journaling as that of XFS, JFS, and ReiserFS in its default mode - metadata journaling. Unlike these other filesystems, however, a crash+recovery of ext3 in writeback mode can cause file data corruption by allowing stale or sensitive data to appear in files which were written shortly before the crash. This mode will typically provide the best ext3 performance. --- I propose this change because the implication that this mode is no worse than what other journaling filesystems do is wrong, IMHO. Other filesystems consider this sort of stale data exposure to be a bug and a security flaw. :) Thanks, -Eric > * ordered mode > -In data=ordered mode, ext3 only officially journals metadata, but it logically > -groups metadata and data blocks into a single unit called a transaction. When > -it's time to write the new metadata out to disk, the associated data blocks > +This mode can be made the default via the kernel config option > +CONFIG_EXT3_DEFAULTS_TO_ORDERED. In data=ordered mode, ext3 only officially > +journals metadata, but it logically groups metadata and data blocks into a > +single unit called a transaction. > +When it's time to write the new metadata out to disk, the associated data blocks > are written first. In general, this mode performs slightly slower than > writeback but significantly faster than journal mode. > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: [PATCH] Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt 2009-05-19 16:16 ` Eric Sandeen @ 2009-05-19 17:49 ` Andrew Clayton 0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Andrew Clayton @ 2009-05-19 17:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric Sandeen; +Cc: linux-ext4 On Tue, 19 May 2009 11:16:13 -0500, Eric Sandeen wrote: > Andrew Clayton wrote: > > --- ext3.txt.orig 2009-05-19 16:31:17.000000000 +0100 > > +++ ext3.txt 2009-05-19 16:59:35.000000000 +0100 > > @@ -39,11 +39,11 @@ > > data=journal All data are committed into the > > journal prior to being written into the main file system. > > > > -data=ordered (*) All data are forced directly out to > > the main file +data=ordered All data are forced > > directly out to the main file system prior to its metadata being > > committed to the journal. > > > > -data=writeback Data ordering is not preserved, data > > may be written +data=writeback (*) Data ordering is > > not preserved, data may be written into the main file system after > > its metadata has been committed to the journal. > > I guess I'd still rather see a "see below" or something here, because > I think this is a critical change. Perhaps you can tell I have a > slight agenda ;) I think writeback as default is a terrible choice, Heh, yeah. > and at least full disclosure of risks is in order.... > > > @@ -160,16 +160,19 @@ > > There are 3 different data modes: > > > > * writeback mode > > -In data=writeback mode, ext3 does not journal data at all. This > > mode provides -a similar level of journaling as that of XFS, JFS, > > and ReiserFS in its default -mode - metadata journaling. A > > crash+recovery can cause incorrect data to -appear in files which > > were written shortly before the crash. This mode will -typically > > provide the best ext3 performance. +If no mode is explicitly set > > then this is the default mode. In data=writeback +mode, ext3 does > > not journal data at all. This mode provides a similar level of > > +journaling as that of XFS, JFS, and ReiserFS in its default mode - > > metadata +journaling. A crash+recovery can cause file corruption > > and may lead to +sensitve data to appear in files which were > > written shortly before the crash. +This mode will typically provide > > the best ext3 performance. > > I'd do something like: > > --- > If no mode is explicitly set then this is the default mode. In > data=writeback mode, ext3 does not journal data at all. This mode > provides a similar level of journaling as that of XFS, JFS, and > ReiserFS in its default mode - metadata journaling. Unlike these > other filesystems, however, a crash+recovery of ext3 in writeback > mode can cause file data corruption by allowing stale or sensitive > data to appear in files which were written shortly before the crash. > This mode will typically provide the best ext3 performance. > --- > > I propose this change because the implication that this mode is no > worse than what other journaling filesystems do is wrong, IMHO. Other > filesystems consider this sort of stale data exposure to be a bug and > a security flaw. :) Sure. > Thanks, > -Eric OK, I've made the suggested changes. Cheers, Andrew Update the ext3 document with the fact that data=writeback is now the default journaling mode and emphasise the implications of this as pointed out by Eric Sandeen.. Also mention that the default can be turned back to ordered mode via CONFIG_EXT3_DEFAULTS_TO_ORDERED Signed-off-by: Andrew Clayton <andrew@digital-domain.net> --- ext3.txt.orig 2009-05-19 18:31:22.885057195 +0100 +++ ext3.txt 2009-05-19 18:39:52.173063273 +0100 @@ -39,13 +39,15 @@ data=journal All data are committed into the journal prior to being written into the main file system. -data=ordered (*) All data are forced directly out to the main file +data=ordered All data are forced directly out to the main file system prior to its metadata being committed to the journal. -data=writeback Data ordering is not preserved, data may be written +data=writeback (*) Data ordering is not preserved, data may be written into the main file system after its metadata has been - committed to the journal. + committed to the journal. NOTE: See the writeback text + in the "Data Mode" section below for the implications + of this. commit=nrsec (*) Ext3 can be told to sync all its data and metadata every 'nrsec' seconds. The default value is 5 seconds. @@ -160,16 +162,20 @@ There are 3 different data modes: * writeback mode -In data=writeback mode, ext3 does not journal data at all. This mode provides -a similar level of journaling as that of XFS, JFS, and ReiserFS in its default -mode - metadata journaling. A crash+recovery can cause incorrect data to -appear in files which were written shortly before the crash. This mode will -typically provide the best ext3 performance. +If no mode is explicitly set then this is the default mode. In data=writeback +mode, ext3 does not journal data at all. This mode provides a similar level of +journaling as that of XFS, JFS, and ReiserFS in its default mode - metadata +journaling. Unlike these other filesystems however, a crash+recovery of ext3 +can cause file corruption by allowing stale or sensitve data to appear in files +which were written shortly before the crash. This mode will typically provide +the best ext3 performance. * ordered mode -In data=ordered mode, ext3 only officially journals metadata, but it logically -groups metadata and data blocks into a single unit called a transaction. When -it's time to write the new metadata out to disk, the associated data blocks +This mode can be made the default via the kernel config option +CONFIG_EXT3_DEFAULTS_TO_ORDERED. In data=ordered mode, ext3 only officially +journals metadata, but it logically groups metadata and data blocks into a +single unit called a transaction. +When it's time to write the new metadata out to disk, the associated data blocks are written first. In general, this mode performs slightly slower than writeback but significantly faster than journal mode. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-05-19 17:49 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2009-05-18 20:22 [PATCH] Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt Andrew Clayton 2009-05-19 14:35 ` Eric Sandeen 2009-05-19 16:03 ` Andrew Clayton 2009-05-19 16:16 ` Eric Sandeen 2009-05-19 17:49 ` Andrew Clayton
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).