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From: Otto Solares <solca@guug.org>
To: Jon Smirl <jonsmirl@yahoo.com>
Cc: dri-devel <dri-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	mesa3d-dev <mesa3d-dev@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	fb-devel <linux-fbdev-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Linux-fbdev-devel] Redesign of kernel graphics interface
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:57:35 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20040506205735.GA5194@guug.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20040506181639.61975.qmail@web14929.mail.yahoo.com>

On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 11:16:39AM -0700, Jon Smirl wrote:
> At the X Developers Conference there was a discussion of the issues around
> framebuffer and DRI. Theodore Ts'o suggested that I write it up and post it for
> discussion. I'm going to try and list all of the issues I've heard from all
> sides so some of the proposed solutions are in conflict. The goal of this list
> is to provide direction for a topic discussion at the Ottawa Kernel Summit.

I see as common sense that fbdev should become the low-level and unified
interface for graphics in Linux, it has too many advantages for us:

- Exists now.
- Multi-architecture.
- Very popular in embedded solutions.
- Interface to change video modes.
- Supports low-end hardware.
- It has an interface to control the hw from userspace.
- Can be enhanced or fixed.

Missing in fbdev:

- Memory management.
- Hardware lock to synch or flag changes in hardware.
  (Maybe with the DRM/FB merge we could reuse the lock.)
- sysfs (being fixed by Luca).
- Video-out port API.
- Video capture API (gatos).

I imply too that fbcon should not be considered as part of this low-level
layer, but a client of it, because it implements acceleration and other
stuff not related nor pertinent to a graphics layer per se.

I am not saying that everything should be in the kernel, just the necesary
API to properly have a Linux graphics state machine.  Anything else should
be in userspace, specially acceleration that could be provided by DRI,
directfb, fbcon, etc. which all will be clients of the low-level fbdev layer.

This path makes it feasible to implement graphics servers (like Xserver)
without implementing or duplicating the graphics layer details.  This
would lead to a sane and (with time) a stable graphics layer for linux in
the same way we have first-class networking, input and sound layers in Linux
now.

-otto



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  parent reply	other threads:[~2004-05-06 20:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 53+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-05-06 18:16 Redesign of kernel graphics interface Jon Smirl
2004-05-06 19:46 ` [Linux-fbdev-devel] " Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-05-06 23:20   ` James Simmons
2004-05-06 20:57 ` Otto Solares [this message]
2004-05-06 23:19 ` Nicolas Souchu
2004-05-06 21:42   ` Jon Smirl
2004-05-07  0:30     ` Nicolas Souchu
2004-05-06 22:48       ` James Simmons
2004-05-07  0:50         ` Jon Smirl
2004-05-07  1:20           ` [Dri-devel] " Keith Packard
2004-05-07  1:33             ` Jon Smirl
2004-05-07  8:31           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-05-14 17:20           ` Sven Luther
2004-05-14 17:35             ` Alex Deucher
2004-05-14 19:25               ` Sven Luther
2004-05-14 17:51             ` Jon Smirl
2004-05-14 18:08               ` Ville Syrjälä
     [not found]                 ` <20040514184004.16621.qmail@web14930.mail.yahoo.com>
2004-05-14 19:01                   ` Ville Syrjälä
2004-05-15  7:27                     ` Holger Waechtler
2004-05-15  8:25                       ` Ville Syrjälä
2004-05-17 17:40                   ` Alan Cox
2004-05-14 19:31               ` Sven Luther
2004-05-10  0:57         ` [Dri-devel] " Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2004-05-10 16:14           ` James Simmons
2004-05-10 16:28             ` [Dri-devel] " Ville Syrjälä
2004-05-10 22:42               ` Nicolas Souchu
2004-05-10 18:29             ` Jon Smirl
2004-05-10 19:16               ` Mike Mestnik
2004-05-10 21:05               ` James Simmons
2004-05-10 22:39               ` Nicolas Souchu
2004-05-10 20:47                 ` Otto Solares
2004-05-10 23:58                   ` James Simmons
2004-05-11 22:57                   ` Nicolas Souchu
2004-05-11 21:17                     ` Otto Solares
2004-05-11 21:29                     ` Ville Syrjälä
2004-05-10 19:33             ` [Dri-devel] Re: [Linux-fbdev-devel] " Alan Cox
2004-05-11  8:33               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-05-10 23:40             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2004-05-10 23:50               ` James Simmons
2004-05-11 22:13                 ` Compiling Rage xlinit.c Richard Smith
2004-05-14 19:41                   ` Richard Smith
2004-05-14 21:28                     ` Steve Longerbeam
2004-05-14 22:16                       ` Richard Smith
2004-05-14 22:48                         ` Steve Longerbeam
2004-05-14 23:57                           ` Richard Smith
2004-05-15  0:22                             ` Steve Longerbeam
2004-05-15  0:42                             ` Ville Syrjälä
2004-05-18 22:06                             ` James Simmons
2004-05-19 14:36                               ` Richard Smith
2004-05-19 22:20                                 ` James Simmons
2004-05-07  8:30       ` [Linux-fbdev-devel] Redesign of kernel graphics interface Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-05-06 23:21   ` James Simmons
2004-05-10 12:07 ` [Dri-devel] " Egbert Eich

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