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From: Chris Mason <chris.mason@oracle.com>
To: Mark Lord <kernel@teksavvy.com>
Cc: James Bottomley <james.bottomley@suse.de>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	Matthew Wilcox <matthew@wil.cx>, Josef Bacik <josef@redhat.com>,
	Lukas Czerner <lczerner@redhat.com>, tytso <tytso@mit.edu>,
	linux-ext4 <linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	sandeen <sandeen@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/2] fs: Do not dispatch FITRIM through separate super_operation
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:40:44 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1290177488-sup-6540@think> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4CE59C9E.6050902@teksavvy.com>

Excerpts from Mark Lord's message of 2010-11-18 16:37:34 -0500:
> On 10-11-18 12:19 PM, James Bottomley wrote:
> >
> > Not stepping into the debate: I'm happy to see punch go to the mapping
> > data and FITRIM pick it up later.
> >
> > However, I think it's time to question whether we actually still want to
> > allow online discard at all.  Most of the benchmarks show it to be a net
> > lose to almost everything (either SSD or Thinly Provisioned arrays), so
> > it's become an "enable this to degrade performance" option with no
> > upside.
> 
> I also suspect that online TRIM exerts significant premature wear on the SSDs.
> TRIM operations most likely trigger immediate copy/erase operations internal
> to most SSDs, often regardless of the amount of data being trimmed.
> 
> Performing a 256KB erase because of a 1024-byte TRIM, over and over, is going
> to harm the expected lifetime of an SSD.  Sure, some SSDs may do things differently
> internally, but I don't see it working that way in much of the current crop of SSDs.
> 
> Currently, I patch my kernels to remove the automatic online TRIMs.
> Is there a knob somewhere for this in the later kernels?

We've been told that online and constant trimming is the default in
windows7.   The ssds are most likely to just start ignoring the trims
they can't service efficiently.

-chris

  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-11-19 14:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-11-18  7:36 [PATCH 1/2] fs: Do not dispatch FITRIM through separate super_operation Lukas Czerner
2010-11-18  7:36 ` [PATCH 2/2] ext4: Add EXT4_IOC_TRIM ioctl to handle batched discard Lukas Czerner
2010-11-19 16:19   ` Ted Ts'o
2010-11-19 16:26     ` Lukas Czerner
2010-11-20  1:37       ` Ted Ts'o
2010-11-18 13:06 ` [PATCH 1/2] fs: Do not dispatch FITRIM through separate super_operation Matthew Wilcox
2010-11-18 13:48   ` Josef Bacik
2010-11-18 14:19     ` Matthew Wilcox
2010-11-18 14:29       ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-11-18 17:19         ` James Bottomley
2010-11-18 17:22           ` Jeff Moyer
2010-11-18 17:41             ` James Bottomley
2010-11-18 20:04               ` Greg Freemyer
2010-11-18 21:42                 ` Mark Lord
2010-11-18 21:44                 ` Mark Lord
2010-11-18 21:50                   ` James Bottomley
2010-11-18 22:07                     ` Mark Lord
2010-11-19  1:33                       ` Ted Ts'o
2010-11-19  3:44                         ` Mark Lord
     [not found]                         ` <4CE5F2A1.2000009@teksavvy.com>
2010-11-19 13:58                           ` Jeff Moyer
2010-11-18 23:52                   ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-11-19  0:34                     ` Mark Lord
2010-11-19  1:16                       ` Greg Freemyer
2010-11-19 11:55                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-11-19 14:01                           ` Mark Lord
2010-11-19 14:06                             ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-11-19 14:48                               ` Mark Lord
2010-11-19 14:54                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-11-19 15:24                                   ` Mark Lord
2010-11-19 15:34                                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-11-19 16:20                           ` Greg Freemyer
2010-11-19 16:38                             ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-11-19 18:06                               ` Lukas Czerner
2010-11-19 18:10                                 ` Lukas Czerner
2010-11-19 18:14                                   ` Lukas Czerner
2010-11-19 19:29                                 ` Chris Mason
2010-11-19  1:49                       ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-11-19  3:42                         ` Mark Lord
2010-11-18 18:05             ` Jamie Lokier
2010-11-18 19:32               ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2010-11-18 21:45                 ` Mark Lord
2010-11-18 21:50                   ` Markus Trippelsdorf
2010-11-18 22:09                     ` Mark Lord
2010-11-18 17:35           ` Lukas Czerner
2010-11-19 12:16             ` Steven Whitehouse
2010-11-19 13:53               ` Mark Lord
2010-11-19 14:02                 ` Ted Ts'o
2010-11-19 14:10                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-11-19 14:50                   ` Mark Lord
2010-11-19 15:35                   ` Mark Lord
     [not found]                   ` <20101119141007.GB25488@infradead.org>
2010-11-19 15:37                     ` Ted Ts'o
2010-11-19 15:50                       ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]                       ` <20101119155003.GA7145@infradead.org>
2010-11-19 16:16                         ` Ted Ts'o
     [not found]                   ` <4CE69940.6040908@teksavvy.com>
2010-11-19 15:44                     ` Lukas Czerner
2010-11-19 16:30                       ` Ted Ts'o
2010-11-19 22:49                         ` Mark Lord
2010-11-25  2:48                         ` Mark Lord
     [not found]                         ` <4CEDCE60.9050109@teksavvy.com>
2010-11-25  4:23                           ` Martin K. Petersen
2010-11-25 14:44                             ` Mark Lord
2010-11-25  4:41                           ` Greg Freemyer
2010-11-25 14:53                             ` Mark Lord
2010-11-25 16:24                               ` Greg Freemyer
2010-11-26 13:49                                 ` Mark Lord
2010-11-26 14:00                                   ` Lukas Czerner
2010-11-18 17:55           ` Chris Mason
2010-12-03 18:24             ` Ric Wheeler
2010-11-18 21:37           ` Mark Lord
2010-11-19 11:09             ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-11-19 13:54               ` Mark Lord
2010-11-19 14:40             ` Chris Mason [this message]
2010-11-19 14:53               ` Mark Lord
2010-11-19 14:57                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-11-19 15:21                   ` Mark Lord
2010-12-07  9:27                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-12-07 16:52                       ` Chris Mason
2011-06-02  4:52                         ` Kyungmin Park
2011-06-02  8:14                           ` Lukas Czerner
2011-06-03  2:06                           ` Dave Chinner
2011-06-03  4:25                             ` Kyungmin Park
2010-11-19 15:30                   ` Mark Lord
2010-11-21 19:07                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2010-11-21 20:20                   ` James Bottomley
2010-11-18 14:31       ` Josef Bacik
2010-11-18 14:36         ` Tao Ma
2010-11-19 15:41 ` Ted Ts'o
2010-11-19 15:50   ` Christoph Hellwig

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