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From: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To: Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com>
Cc: "linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	 Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>,
	Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
	Greg Thelen <gthelen@google.com>,
	Minchan Kim <minchan.kim@gmail.com>,
	 Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@redhat.com>,
	Andrea Righi <arighi@develer.com>, linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/5] writeback: dirty position control
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:38:07 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1314027488.24275.74.camel@twins> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20110812142020.GB17781@localhost>

On Fri, 2011-08-12 at 22:20 +0800, Wu Fengguang wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 09:04:19PM +0800, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > On Tue, 2011-08-09 at 19:20 +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> 
> To start with,
> 
>                                                 write_bw
>         ref_bw = task_ratelimit_in_past_200ms * --------
>                                                 dirty_bw
> 
> where
>         task_ratelimit_in_past_200ms ~= dirty_ratelimit * pos_ratio
> 
> > > Now all of the above would seem to suggest:
> > > 
> > >   dirty_ratelimit := ref_bw
> 
> Right, ideally ref_bw is the balanced dirty ratelimit. I actually
> started with exactly the above equation when I got choked by pure
> pos_bw based feedback control (as mentioned in the reply to Jan's
> email) and introduced the ref_bw estimation as the way out.
> 
> But there are some imperfections in ref_bw, too. Which makes it not
> suitable for direct use:
> 
> 1) large fluctuations

OK, understood.

> 2) due to truncates and fs redirties, the (write_bw <=> dirty_bw)
> becomes unbalanced match, which leads to large systematical errors
> in ref_bw. The truncates, due to its possibly bumpy nature, can hardly
> be compensated smoothly.

OK.

> 3) since we ultimately want to
> 
> - keep the dirty pages around the setpoint as long time as possible
> - keep the fluctuations of task ratelimit as small as possible

Fair enough ;-)

> the update policy used for (2) also serves the above goals nicely:
> if for some reason the dirty pages are high (pos_bw < dirty_ratelimit),
> and dirty_ratelimit is low (dirty_ratelimit < ref_bw), there is no
> point to bring up dirty_ratelimit in a hurry and to hurt both the
> above two goals.

Right, so still I feel somewhat befuddled, so we have:

	dirty_ratelimit - rate at which we throttle dirtiers as
			  estimated upto 200ms ago.

	pos_ratio	- ratio adjusting the dirty_ratelimit
			  for variance in dirty pages around its target

	bw_ratio	- ratio adjusting the dirty_ratelimit
			  for variance in input/output bandwidth

and we need to basically do:

	dirty_ratelimit *= pos_ratio * bw_ratio

to update the dirty_ratelimit to reflect the current state. However per
1) and 2) bw_ratio is crappy and hard to fix.

So you propose to update dirty_ratelimit only if both pos_ratio and
bw_ratio point in the same direction, however that would result in:

  if (pos_ratio < UNIT && bw_ratio < UNIT ||
      pos_ratio > UNIT && bw_ratio > UNIT) {
	dirty_ratelimit = (dirty_ratelimit * pos_ratio) / UNIT;
	dirty_ratelimit = (dirty_ratelimit * bw_ratio) / UNIT;
  }

> > > However for that you use:
> > > 
> > >   if (pos_bw < dirty_ratelimit && ref_bw < dirty_ratelimit)
> > >         dirty_ratelimit = max(ref_bw, pos_bw);
> > > 
> > >   if (pos_bw > dirty_ratelimit && ref_bw > dirty_ratelimit)
> > >         dirty_ratelimit = min(ref_bw, pos_bw);
> 
> The above are merely constraints to the dirty_ratelimit update.
> It serves to
> 
> 1) stop adjusting the rate when it's against the position control
>    target (the adjusted rate will slow down the progress of dirty
>    pages going back to setpoint).

Not strictly speaking, suppose pos_ratio = 0.5 and bw_ratio = 1.1, then
they point in different directions however:

 0.5 < 1 &&  0.5 * 1.1 < 1

so your code will in fact update the dirty_ratelimit, even though the
two factors point in opposite directions.

> 2) limit the step size. pos_bw is changing values step by step,
>    leaving a consistent trace comparing to the randomly jumping
>    ref_bw. pos_bw also has smaller errors in stable state and normally
>    have larger errors when there are big errors in rate. So it's a
>    pretty good limiting factor for the step size of dirty_ratelimit.

OK, so that's the min/max stuff, however it only works because you use
pos_bw and ref_bw instead of the fully separated factors.

> Hope the above elaboration helps :)

A little.. 

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  reply	other threads:[~2011-08-22 15:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 136+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-08-06  8:44 [PATCH 0/5] IO-less dirty throttling v8 Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44 ` [PATCH 1/5] writeback: account per-bdi accumulated dirtied pages Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44 ` [PATCH 2/5] writeback: dirty position control Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 13:46   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 14:11     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 14:31       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 22:47         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09  9:31           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 12:28             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 14:41       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 23:05         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 10:32           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 17:20           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 22:34             ` Jan Kara
2011-08-11  2:29               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-11 11:14                 ` Jan Kara
2011-08-16  8:35                   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12 13:19             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 21:40           ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-16  8:55             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-11 22:56           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12  2:43             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12  3:18               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12  5:45               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12  9:45                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 11:07                   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12 12:17                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12  9:47               ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 11:11                 ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12 12:54           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 12:59             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-12 13:08               ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 13:04           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-12 14:20             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-22 15:38               ` Peter Zijlstra [this message]
2011-08-23  3:40                 ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-23 10:01                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-23 14:15                     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-23 17:47                       ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-24  0:12                         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-24 16:12                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26  0:18                             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26  9:04                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26 10:04                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26 10:42                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26 10:52                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26 11:26                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26 12:11                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26 12:20                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26 13:13                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26 13:18                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26 13:24                                             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-24 18:00                           ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-25  3:19                             ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-25 22:20                               ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-26  1:56                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-26  8:56                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-26  9:53                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-29 13:12                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-29 13:37                               ` Wu Fengguang
2011-09-02 12:16                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-09-06 12:40                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-24 15:57                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-25  5:30                         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-23 14:36                     ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09  2:08   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-16  8:59     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44 ` [PATCH 3/5] writeback: dirty rate control Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 14:54   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-11  3:42     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 14:57   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 11:07     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 16:17       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-15 14:08         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 15:50   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09 16:16     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-09 16:19       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 14:07         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 14:00       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 17:10         ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-15 14:11           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 16:56   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 14:10     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 17:02   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 14:15     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44 ` [PATCH 4/5] writeback: per task dirty rate limit Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06 14:35   ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-07  6:19     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 13:47   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 14:21     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 23:32       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 14:23     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-08 14:26       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-08 22:38         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-13 16:28       ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-15 14:21         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-15 14:26           ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-09 17:46   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-10  3:29     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 18:18       ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-11  0:55         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 18:35   ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10  3:40     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10 10:25       ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10 11:13         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06  8:44 ` [PATCH 5/5] writeback: IO-less balance_dirty_pages() Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06 14:48   ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-07  6:44     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-06 16:46   ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-07  7:18     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-07  9:50       ` Andrea Righi
2011-08-09 18:15   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09 18:41     ` Peter Zijlstra
2011-08-10  3:22       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-10  3:26     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09 19:16   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-10  4:33     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-09  2:01 ` [PATCH 0/5] IO-less dirty throttling v8 Vivek Goyal
2011-08-09  5:55   ` Dave Chinner
2011-08-09 14:04     ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-10  7:41       ` Greg Thelen
2011-08-10 18:40         ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-11  3:21   ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-11 20:42     ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-11 21:00       ` Vivek Goyal
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2011-08-16  2:20 [PATCH 0/5] IO-less dirty throttling v9 Wu Fengguang
2011-08-16  2:20 ` [PATCH 2/5] writeback: dirty position control Wu Fengguang
2011-08-16 19:41   ` Jan Kara
2011-08-17 13:23     ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-17 13:49       ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-17 20:24       ` Jan Kara
2011-08-18  4:18         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-18  4:41           ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-18 19:16           ` Jan Kara
2011-08-24  3:16         ` Wu Fengguang
2011-08-19  2:53   ` Vivek Goyal
2011-08-19  3:25     ` Wu Fengguang

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