From: David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>
To: Daniel Phillips <phillips@phunq.net>
Cc: Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com, nfsv4@linux-nfs.org,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, dhowells@redhat.com,
linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, selinux@tycho.nsa.gov,
casey@schaufler-ca.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/37] Permit filesystem local caching
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:07:41 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <18063.1203638861@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200802211444.04986.phillips@phunq.net>
Daniel Phillips <phillips@phunq.net> wrote:
> When you say Ext3 cache vs NFS cache is the first on the server and the
> second on the client?
The filesystem on the server is pretty much irrelevant as long as (a) it
doesn't change, and (b) all the data is in memory on the server anyway.
The way the client works is like this:
+---------+
| |
| NFS |--+
| | |
+---------+ | +----------+
| | |
+---------+ +-->| |
| | | |
| AFS |----->| FS-Cache |
| | | |--+
+---------+ +-->| | |
| | | | +--------------+ +--------------+
+---------+ | +----------+ | | | | |
| | | +-->| CacheFiles |-->| Ext3 |
| ISOFS |--+ | /var/cache | | /dev/sda6 |
| | +--------------+ +--------------+
+---------+
(1) NFS, say, asks FS-Cache to store/retrieve data for it;
(2) FS-Cache asks the cache backend, in this case CacheFiles to honour the
operation;
(3) CacheFiles 'opens' a file in a mounted filesystem, say Ext3, and does read
and write operations of a sort on it;
(4) Ext3 decides how the cache data is laid out on disk - CacheFiles just
attempts to use one sparse file per netfs inode.
> I am trying to spot the numbers that show the sweet spot for this
> optimization, without much success so far.
What are you trying to do exactly? Are you actually playing with it, or just
looking at the numbers I've produced?
> Who is supposed to win big? Is this mainly about reducing the load on
> the server, or is the client supposed to win even with a lightly loaded
> server?
These are difficult questions to answer. The obvious answer to both is "it
depends", and the real answer to both is "it's a compromise".
Inserting a cache adds overhead: you have to look in the cache to see if your
objects are mirrored there, and then you have to look in the cache to see if
the data you want is stored there; and then you might have to go to the server
anyway and then schedule a copy to be stored in the cache.
The characteristics of this type of cache depend on a number of things: the
filesystem backing it being the most obvious variable, but also how fragmented
it is and the properties of the disk drive or drives it is on.
Whether it's worth having a cache depend on the characteristics of the network
versus the characteristics of the cache. Latency of the cache vs latency of
the network, for example. Network loading is another: having a cache on each
of several clients sharing a server can reduce network traffic by avoiding the
read requests to the server. NFS has a characteristic that it keeps spamming
the server with file status requests, so even if you take the read requests out
of the load, an NFS client still generates quite a lot of network traffic to
the server - but the reduction is still useful.
The metadata problem is quite a tricky one since it increases with the number
of files you're dealing with. As things stand in my patches, when NFS, for
example, wants to access a new inode, it first has to go to the server to
lookup the NFS file handle, and only then can it go to the cache to find out if
there's a matching object in the case. Worse, the cache must then perform
several synchronous disk bound metadata operations before it can be possible to
read from the cache. Worse still, this means that a read on the network file
cannot proceed until (a) we've been to the server *plus* (b) we've been to the
disk.
The reason my client going to my server is so quick is that the server has the
dcache and the pagecache preloaded, so that across-network lookup operations
are really, really quick, as compared to the synchronous slogging of the local
disk to find the cache object.
I can probably improve this a little by pre-loading the subindex directories
(hash tables) that I use to reduce the directory size in the cache, but I don't
know by how much.
Anyway, to answer your questions:
(1) It may help with heavily loaded networks with lots of read-only traffic.
(2) It may help with slow connections (like doing NFS between the UK and
Australia).
(3) It could be used to do offline/disconnected operation.
David
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2008-02-22 0:07 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 69+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-02-20 16:05 [PATCH 00/37] Permit filesystem local caching David Howells
2008-02-20 16:06 ` [PATCH 01/37] KEYS: Increase the payload size when instantiating a key David Howells
2008-02-20 16:06 ` [PATCH 02/37] KEYS: Check starting keyring as part of search David Howells
2008-02-20 16:06 ` [PATCH 03/37] KEYS: Allow the callout data to be passed as a blob rather than a string David Howells
2008-02-20 16:06 ` [PATCH 04/37] KEYS: Add keyctl function to get a security label David Howells
2008-02-20 16:06 ` [PATCH 05/37] Security: Change current->fs[ug]id to current_fs[ug]id() David Howells
2008-02-20 16:06 ` [PATCH 06/37] Security: Separate task security context from task_struct David Howells
2008-02-22 4:47 ` Casey Schaufler
2008-02-20 16:06 ` [PATCH 07/37] Security: De-embed task security record from task and use refcounting David Howells
2008-02-22 4:57 ` Casey Schaufler
2008-02-20 16:06 ` [PATCH 08/37] Security: Add a kernel_service object class to SELinux David Howells
2008-02-20 16:06 ` [PATCH 09/37] Security: Allow kernel services to override LSM settings for task actions David Howells
2008-02-22 5:06 ` Casey Schaufler
2008-02-22 13:06 ` David Howells
2008-02-20 16:06 ` [PATCH 10/37] Security: Make NFSD work with detached security David Howells
2008-02-20 16:06 ` [PATCH 11/37] FS-Cache: Release page->private after failed readahead David Howells
2008-02-20 16:07 ` [PATCH 12/37] FS-Cache: Recruit a couple of page flags for cache management David Howells
2008-02-20 16:07 ` [PATCH 13/37] FS-Cache: Provide an add_wait_queue_tail() function David Howells
2008-02-20 16:07 ` [PATCH 14/37] FS-Cache: Generic filesystem caching facility David Howells
2008-02-20 16:07 ` [PATCH 15/37] CacheFiles: Add missing copy_page export for ia64 David Howells
2008-02-20 16:07 ` [PATCH 16/37] CacheFiles: Be consistent about the use of mapping vs file->f_mapping in Ext3 David Howells
2008-02-20 16:07 ` [PATCH 17/37] CacheFiles: Add a hook to write a single page of data to an inode David Howells
2008-02-20 16:07 ` [PATCH 18/37] CacheFiles: Permit the page lock state to be monitored David Howells
2008-02-20 16:07 ` [PATCH 19/37] CacheFiles: Export things for CacheFiles David Howells
2008-02-20 16:07 ` [PATCH 20/37] CacheFiles: A cache that backs onto a mounted filesystem David Howells
2008-02-20 16:07 ` [PATCH 21/37] NFS: Add comment banners to some NFS functions David Howells
2008-02-20 16:07 ` [PATCH 22/37] NFS: Add FS-Cache option bit and debug bit David Howells
2008-02-20 16:08 ` [PATCH 23/37] NFS: Permit local filesystem caching to be enabled for NFS David Howells
2008-02-20 16:08 ` [PATCH 24/37] NFS: Register NFS for caching and retrieve the top-level index David Howells
2008-02-20 16:08 ` [PATCH 25/37] NFS: Define and create server-level objects David Howells
2008-02-20 16:08 ` [PATCH 26/37] NFS: Define and create superblock-level objects David Howells
2008-02-20 16:08 ` [PATCH 27/37] NFS: Define and create inode-level cache objects David Howells
2008-02-20 16:08 ` [PATCH 28/37] NFS: Use local disk inode cache David Howells
2008-02-20 16:08 ` [PATCH 29/37] NFS: Invalidate FsCache page flags when cache removed David Howells
2008-02-20 16:08 ` [PATCH 30/37] NFS: Add some new I/O event counters for FS-Cache events David Howells
2008-02-20 16:08 ` [PATCH 31/37] NFS: FS-Cache page management David Howells
2008-02-20 16:08 ` [PATCH 32/37] NFS: Add read context retention for FS-Cache to call back with David Howells
2008-02-20 16:08 ` [PATCH 33/37] NFS: nfs_readpage_async() needs to be accessible as a fallback for local caching David Howells
2008-02-20 16:09 ` [PATCH 34/37] NFS: Read pages from FS-Cache into an NFS inode David Howells
2008-02-20 16:09 ` [PATCH 35/37] NFS: Store pages from an NFS inode into a local cache David Howells
2008-02-20 16:09 ` [PATCH 36/37] NFS: Display local caching state David Howells
2008-02-20 16:09 ` [PATCH 37/37] NFS: Add mount options to enable local caching on NFS David Howells
2008-02-20 19:58 ` [PATCH 00/37] Permit filesystem local caching Serge E. Hallyn
2008-02-20 20:11 ` David Howells
2008-02-21 3:07 ` Daniel Phillips
2008-02-21 12:31 ` David Howells
2008-02-21 14:55 ` David Howells
2008-02-21 15:17 ` Kevin Coffman
2008-02-21 22:44 ` Daniel Phillips
2008-02-21 22:52 ` Muntz, Daniel
2008-02-22 0:07 ` David Howells [this message]
2008-02-22 0:57 ` Daniel Phillips
2008-02-22 12:48 ` David Howells
2008-02-22 22:25 ` Daniel Phillips
2008-02-23 1:22 ` David Howells
2008-02-21 23:33 ` David Howells
2008-02-22 13:52 ` Chris Mason
2008-02-22 16:12 ` David Howells
2008-02-22 16:47 ` David Howells
2008-02-25 23:19 ` David Howells
2008-02-26 0:43 ` Daniel Phillips
2008-02-26 2:00 ` David Howells
2008-02-26 10:26 ` Daniel Phillips
2008-02-26 14:33 ` David Howells
2008-02-26 19:43 ` Daniel Phillips
2008-02-26 21:09 ` David Howells
2008-02-22 16:14 ` David Howells
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-02-22 16:01 Rick Macklem
2008-02-08 16:51 David Howells
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