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From: Valerie Henson <val_henson@linux.intel.com>
To: Matthew Wilcox <matthew@wil.cx>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>, Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>,
	Arjan van de Ven <arjan@linux.intel.com>,
	ext2-devel <ext2-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>,
	cmm@us.ibm.com, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	Alex Tomas <alex@clusterfs.com>,
	Andreas Dilger <adilger@clusterfs.com>
Subject: Continuation Inodes Explained! (was Re: [RFC 0/13] extents and 48bit ext3)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 20:26:24 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20060610032623.GG10524@goober> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20060609153116.GM1651@parisc-linux.org>

On Fri, Jun 09, 2006 at 09:31:16AM -0600, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> 
> I want extents, but I'm still unconvinced that ext3 needs to grow beyond
> 32-bit blocks.  The scheme posted by Val and Arjan (with the
> continuation inodes) seems much neater.

Well, thanks!  Arjan and I like our idea too, but at this point it's
just an idea.  We'll be hashing it out some more at the file system
workshop next week.

To be honest, continuation inodes and these ext3 patches are
addressing different problems.  ext3 48-bit extents are an advanced
solution to a complex problem - growing ext3 beyond 8TB while keeping
as much of the existing on-disk format and associated stable code as
possible.  It's hard work and the ext3 developers came up with some
good ideas.  Continuation inodes are an idea about how to limit error
propagation in large file systems - an idea which happens to allow
file systems larger than 8 TB with 32-bit block pointers.

So what the heck are continuation inodes?  Actually, we named this
"chunkfs" - not particularly descriptive, maybe continuation inodes is
a better term.

Continuation inodes/chunkfs are an idea Arjan and I came up with,
inspired loosely by the ext2 dirty bit code.  The problem we were
trying to solve is how to isolate the effects of file system
corruption (from crash, bug, or I/O error) so that we didn't have to
run fsck over the entire file system in order to repair it.  This is
important because disk bandwidth is not growing as fast as disk
capacity, so the absolute time to read the entire disk is growing.
The basic idea is to create a bunch of small file systems - chunks -
which look like one big file system to the administrator.  Major
problems to solve:

1. Files which span more than one chunk (file system).
2. Hard links from a directory in chunk A to a file in chunk B.

The solution we came up with is to create a "continuation inode" in
every file system chunk which contains data for a particular file or
directory.  For example, if file "foo" has its inode in chunk A, and
some file data in chunk B, we would create a continuation inode in
chunk B.  The continuation inode has a back pointer to the parent
inode.  Now imagine there is some kind of corruption in chunk B and we
need to check the file system.  We can determine the free or allocated
state of every block in chunk B without reading any metadata outside
of chunk B.

Similarly, if we create a hard link to file "foo" in chunk A from
directory "bar" in chunk B, we will allocate a continuation inode for
directory "bar" in chunk B, and then allocate a block to contain the
link to "foo" in chunk B.  Once again, to find the link count of every
inode in chunk B, we only have to look at directories inside of chunk
B.  There are still problems that require checking across chunks, but
we only need to read inodes and directory entries in those cases and
the checks are much simpler than in existing fsck.

One interesting possibility would be to combine this with the ext2
dirty bit patches.  They create a clean/dirty bit for an ext2 file
system.  If the system crashes while the file system is being written
to, the bit is set to dirty and we do a full fsck.  If the system
crashes while it's inactive, the bit is clean, and all we have to do
is a little bit of orphan inode cleanup before mounting.  If we
implement chunkfs on top of this, we could get away with fsck'ing only
a few of the file systems each time, getting ext2-style performance
with ext3-style fast recovery.

I measured the number of different block groups that were
simultaneously dirty on my laptop's file system as a proxy for how
many chunks would be dirty; it turns out that on average most block
groups were clean 98% of the time, and when I really pushed my
(admittedly dinky) disk I/O system with an artificial load, only a
maximum of 25% of the block groups were dirty during any one second
period.  So it's tempting... We'll talk about it more next week, I
hope.

-VAL

  reply	other threads:[~2006-06-10  3:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 294+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-06-09  1:20 [RFC 0/13] extents and 48bit ext3 Mingming Cao
2006-06-09  2:40 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-06-09  8:20   ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 18:35     ` [Ext2-devel] " Stephen C. Tweedie
2006-06-09 19:20       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 19:28         ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 19:32           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 19:41             ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 15:23   ` Mingming Cao
2006-06-09  2:49 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09  8:35   ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 15:08     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 15:25       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 15:40         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 15:47           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 15:55             ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 15:56               ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:07                 ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:09                   ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:04                   ` Matthew Frost
2006-06-09 18:10                     ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 18:14                     ` [Ext2-devel] " Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 18:51                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 19:39                         ` Gerrit Huizenga
2006-06-09 19:45                           ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:38                             ` Gerrit Huizenga
2006-06-10 10:03                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-06-09 19:49                         ` [Ext2-devel] " Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 20:04                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:57                             ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2006-06-09 21:49                               ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 21:55                                 ` [Ext2-devel] " Stephen C. Tweedie
2006-06-09 23:44                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  0:45                                     ` [Ext2-devel] " Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10  0:47                                     ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10  1:09                                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  1:30                                         ` [Ext2-devel] " Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10  1:43                                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  2:03                                             ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10  2:11                                               ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  2:54                                                 ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10  3:11                                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10 12:15                                                     ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10 14:31                                                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  2:58                                               ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  2:26                                             ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10  2:31                                               ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  4:22                                                 ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 22:37                             ` [Ext2-devel] " Andreas Dilger
2006-06-11 16:02                         ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-06-11 16:30                           ` Nikita Danilov
2006-06-11 16:55                             ` [Ext2-devel] " Arjan van de Ven
2006-06-12  6:35                           ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-12 22:06                         ` [Ext2-devel] " Pavel Machek
2006-06-14 14:31                           ` Barry K. Nathan
2006-06-14 21:34                             ` [Ext2-devel] " Pavel Machek
2006-06-15  0:28                               ` Barry K. Nathan
2006-06-15  4:55                                 ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-15  7:43                                   ` Barry K. Nathan
2006-06-15  9:15                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15  9:40                                   ` Barry K. Nathan
2006-06-15  9:50                                     ` [Ext2-devel] " Pavel Machek
2006-06-09 20:52                 ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2006-06-09 21:47                   ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  0:41                     ` James Morris
2006-06-09 16:01             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 20:38             ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2006-06-09 15:57           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:10           ` [Ext2-devel] " Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:10             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:24               ` Erik Mouw
2006-06-09 16:28                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:24               ` [Ext2-devel] " Chase Venters
2006-06-09 16:25               ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:28                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:50                   ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:53                     ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 17:01                       ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 17:10                         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:25             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 16:48               ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:54                 ` KELEMEN Peter
2006-06-09 16:55                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 17:12                   ` [Ext2-devel] " Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 17:12                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 19:57                   ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 20:09                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:14                       ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 20:28                         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-19  7:48                         ` [Ext2-devel] " Helge Hafting
2006-06-09 20:38                     ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 20:50                       ` Dave Jones
2006-06-09 21:09                         ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 21:51                           ` Mike Snitzer
2006-06-09 21:32                         ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 22:56                           ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 23:06                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 23:09                             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 23:37                               ` [Ext2-devel] " Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 23:54                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 21:03                       ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 21:24                         ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 21:36                           ` [Ext2-devel] " Chase Venters
2006-06-09 21:51                           ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 22:07                             ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 22:31                               ` [Ext2-devel] " Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 22:47                                 ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 23:54                                   ` [Ext2-devel] " Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 23:48                         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-12  8:58                     ` Jes Sorensen
2006-06-10  0:07                   ` Olivier Galibert
2006-06-10  0:13                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:54               ` [Ext2-devel] " Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 17:04                 ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 17:30                   ` [Ext2-devel] " Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 17:41                     ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-06-09 17:50                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:00                         ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 18:04                       ` [Ext2-devel] " Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 18:17                       ` Michael Poole
2006-06-09 17:44                 ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 17:58                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:10                 ` [Ext2-devel] " Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 18:22                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 18:30                     ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 18:38                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 18:50                         ` [Ext2-devel] " Chase Venters
2006-06-09 19:00                           ` Chase Venters
2006-06-10 13:33                             ` Adrian Bunk
2006-06-09 19:01                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10 19:27                             ` Kyle Moffett
2006-06-10 19:44                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-10 20:02                                 ` [Ext2-devel] " Linus Torvalds
2006-06-10 21:26                                   ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10 21:31                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-10 22:12                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10 22:21                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-11  4:39                                       ` Stable/devel policy - was Re: [Ext2-devel] " Neil Brown
2006-06-11  5:19                                         ` Stable/devel policy - was " Linus Torvalds
2006-06-11  7:32                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2006-06-13  0:28                                         ` Stable/devel policy - was Re: [Ext2-devel] " Mingming Cao
2006-06-09 19:21                           ` Alan Cox
2006-06-09 19:13                             ` [Ext2-devel] " Chase Venters
2006-06-09 19:24                             ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 19:25                               ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 19:35                                 ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 19:35                                   ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:44                                   ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 20:49                                     ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 21:11                                       ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 21:20                                         ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 21:29                                           ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 21:33                                             ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 21:43                                             ` Joel Becker
2006-06-11 20:14                                   ` [Ext2-devel] " grundig
2006-06-14 16:45                                     ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 19:22                         ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 19:22                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:16                         ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 20:31                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 20:31                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:43                       ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:50                       ` Diego Calleja
2006-06-09 19:08                         ` Diego Calleja
2006-06-09 18:40                   ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:59                     ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-09 19:16                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:27                         ` [Ext2-devel] " Chase Venters
2006-06-09 20:44                       ` Alan Cox
2006-06-11 15:52                         ` [Ext2-devel] " Arjan van de Ven
2006-06-09 18:41                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 17:12               ` Jeff Anderson-Lee
2006-06-09 18:02               ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-10 19:10         ` Kyle Moffett
2006-06-10 19:27           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 15:28       ` [Ext2-devel] " Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 15:31         ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-06-10  3:26           ` Valerie Henson [this message]
2006-06-10  5:25             ` Continuation Inodes Explained! (was Re: [RFC 0/13] extents and 48bit ext3) Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10  5:41               ` Valerie Henson
2006-06-10  6:22                 ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10 14:22             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 15:44         ` [Ext2-devel] [RFC 0/13] extents and 48bit ext3 Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 15:53           ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 15:52             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:02               ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:04                 ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:29           ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 15:53         ` [Ext2-devel] " Gerrit Huizenga
2006-06-09 16:03           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:09           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 17:58             ` Gerrit Huizenga
2006-06-09 18:25               ` [Ext2-devel] " Chase Venters
2006-06-10 13:46               ` Adrian Bunk
2006-06-10 14:42                 ` Ingo Molnar
2006-06-10 15:03                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-11  6:00                     ` Ingo Molnar
2006-06-10 16:00                   ` Adrian Bunk
2006-06-10 16:05                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-06-10 23:05                   ` Mike Galbraith
2006-06-13 13:34               ` [Ext2-devel] " Helge Hafting
2006-06-09 20:32       ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2006-06-09 20:46         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 20:56           ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-20  6:15           ` [Ext2-devel] " Qi Yong
2006-06-20  8:26             ` Laurent Vivier
2006-06-20  8:30               ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-20  9:21                 ` Laurent Vivier
2006-06-20  9:48                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-20 10:40                     ` Laurent Vivier
2006-06-09 17:14   ` Alan Cox
2006-06-09  9:13 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-06-09 10:07   ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-09 15:40     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 15:42       ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-06-09 15:51         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 17:29         ` Alan Cox
2006-06-09 16:56       ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-09 17:07         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 17:35           ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-09 17:48             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 17:59               ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:27                 ` [Ext2-devel] " Mike Snitzer
2006-06-09 18:54                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 19:22                     ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 19:23                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 22:49                       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-06-09 23:34                         ` [Ext2-devel] " Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10 13:49                   ` Adrian Bunk
2006-06-10 13:51                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-06-10 14:54                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10 18:01                         ` [Ext2-devel] " Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 21:42             ` Sonny Rao
2006-06-09 22:15               ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-09 23:11                 ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 23:15                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  3:37                   ` Valerie Henson
2006-06-10  3:49                 ` Nathan Scott
2006-06-09 18:23       ` Michael Poole
2006-06-09 18:55         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 19:42           ` [Ext2-devel] " Gerrit Huizenga
2006-06-09 20:00             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:08               ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 20:10                 ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:35               ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 21:41                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 21:45                   ` [Ext2-devel] " Michael Poole
2006-06-09 21:53                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 22:04                       ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10  0:49         ` Sven-Haegar Koch
2006-06-10  1:06           ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10 14:07             ` Olivier Galibert
2006-06-10 19:52               ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 10:49   ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 11:26   ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 14:23     ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 14:33       ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 14:34       ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 14:35         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 14:57           ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 15:17             ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:21               ` Mike Snitzer
2006-06-09 16:27                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:48                   ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:51                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:33                 ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:37                   ` [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 22:52                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-06-09 23:21                     ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10  1:21                       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-06-10  2:09                         ` [Ext2-devel] " Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10  2:45                           ` Nicholas Miell
2006-06-10  4:29                             ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 16:56               ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 17:32                 ` [Ext2-devel] " Greg KH
2006-06-09 18:48                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-30  0:16 ` [RFC][Update 0/16]extents and 48bit ext3/4 patches Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:16 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 1/16]core extent map support Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:17 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 2/16]sector_t type format string Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:17 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 3/16]convert ext3_fsblk_t to sector_t to support >32 bit block in kernel Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:17 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 4/16]support 48 bit blk number in extents Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:17 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 5/16]block type convert " Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:17 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 6/16]handing unitialized extents Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:17 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 7/16]Core 64 bit JBD changes Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:18 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 8/16]Avoid potential block overflow when writing journal metadata tags Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:18 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 9/16]Fix reading of 32-bit tag descriptors Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:18 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 10/16]Cleanup journal_tag_bytes() Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:18 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 11/16]JBD layer in-kernel block variables type fixes Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:18 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 12/16]Fix undefined ">> 32" in revoke code Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  3:15   ` H. Peter Anvin
2006-06-30  0:18 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 13/16] 48 bit on-disk i_file_acl support Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:19 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 14/16] 48bit super block (metadata) changes Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:19 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 15/16] compile warning fix and change 64bit to INCOMPAT feature Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:19 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 16/16]Update ext3 superblock definition Mingming Cao

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