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From: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
To: Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, jmorris@namei.org,
	ocfs2-devel@oss.oracle.com, viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/3] fs: Document the reflink(2) system call.
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 23:30:16 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090505223016.GF7574@shareable.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090505170058.GD7835@mail.oracle.com>

Joel Becker wrote:
> 	I think I'm confusing you.  ocfs2 creates a new inode, with a
> new tree of extent blocks, pointing to the same data extents as the
> source.  You can do *anything* POSIX to that new inode.  You can chown
> it, chmod it, truncate it, futimes it, whatever.  The only thing at
> issue is what the state of the inode is at the return of the reflink()
> call.

Ok, but does chown/chmod/futimes trigger a COW copy, unsharing the data?
This is still not clear. :-)

Behaviourally, whether a massive copy is triggered by chmod is quite a
significant thing.  It dictates whether programs and scripts should be
careful to avoid chmod on reflinked files because it may very
expensive (think chmod triggering a 200GB copy), or can do so cheaply.

> 	I'm not defining reflink() as "creates a new inode" because I
> can see something like btrfs using the same storage inode with a new
> inode number until it needs to CoW.  But from the user-visible
> perspective, that's exactly what happens.

I'm still not clear from the above explanation whether full data
unsharing (i.e. it's all copied, takes a long time, can trigger
ENOSPC) happens on chown/chmod etc.

But assuming it stays shared until you modify the actual data, could
the documentation make this important fact a bit more prominent:

    reflink() creates a new file which initially shares the same
    underlying data storage as the source file, and has all the same
    attributes including security context and extended attributes.

    After creating the new file, you can do *anything* POSIX to that
    new file.  You can chown it, chmod it, futimes it, truncate it,
    write to it, whatever.  When the data is modified, that will
    trigger a copy-on-write operation so that the underlying data is
    not completely shared any more.

    The amount and timing of copying is filesystem-dependent, but only
    happens when a data write or extended attribute change takes place.

    Opening a file, reading it, read-only or private mappings, and
    simple attribute updates (chown, chmod, futimes, as well as
    automatic atime updates) will not trigger copy-on-write and will
    not return ENOSPC errors.

Thanks,
-- Jamie

  parent reply	other threads:[~2009-05-05 22:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 151+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-05-03  6:15 [RFC] The reflink(2) system call Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:15 ` [PATCH 1/3] fs: Document the " Joel Becker
2009-05-03  8:01   ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-04  2:46     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-04  6:36       ` Michael Kerrisk
2009-05-04  7:12         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03 13:08   ` Boaz Harrosh
2009-05-03 23:08     ` Al Viro
2009-05-04  2:49     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03 23:45   ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-04  1:44     ` Tao Ma
2009-05-04 18:25       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-04 21:18         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-04 22:23           ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-05  6:55             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05  1:07   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05  7:16     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05  8:09       ` Andreas Dilger
2009-05-05 16:56         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 21:24           ` Andreas Dilger
2009-05-05 21:32             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-06  7:15               ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Theodore Tso
2009-05-06 14:24                 ` jim owens
2009-05-06 14:30                   ` jim owens
2009-05-06 17:50                     ` jim owens
2009-05-12 19:20                       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 19:30                       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 19:11                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 19:37                     ` jim owens
2009-05-12 20:11                       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 13:01       ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-05 13:19         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 13:39           ` Chris Mason
2009-05-05 15:36             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 15:41               ` Chris Mason
2009-05-05 16:03                 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 16:18                   ` Chris Mason
2009-05-05 20:48                   ` jim owens
2009-05-05 21:57                     ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:04                       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 22:11                         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:24                           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 23:14                             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:12                         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:21                           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 22:32                             ` James Morris
2009-05-05 22:39                               ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 19:40                               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:28                         ` jim owens
2009-05-05 23:12                           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 16:46               ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-05 16:54                 ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-05 22:03                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 21:44                 ` copyfile semantics Andreas Dilger
2009-05-05 21:48                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2009-05-05 22:25                     ` Trond Myklebust
2009-05-05 22:06                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-06  5:57                   ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-05 14:21           ` [PATCH 1/3] fs: Document the reflink(2) system call Theodore Tso
2009-05-05 15:32             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:49             ` James Morris
2009-05-05 17:05           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 17:00         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 17:29           ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-05 22:36             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:30           ` Jamie Lokier [this message]
2009-05-05 22:37             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 23:08             ` jim owens
2009-05-05 13:01       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 17:09         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:15 ` [PATCH 2/3] fs: Add vfs_reflink() and the ->reflink() inode operation Joel Becker
2009-05-03  8:03   ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-04  2:51     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:15 ` [PATCH 3/3] fs: Add the reflink(2) system call Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:27   ` Matthew Wilcox
2009-05-03  6:39     ` Al Viro
2009-05-03  7:48       ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-03 11:16         ` Al Viro
2009-05-04  2:53       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-04  2:53     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03  8:04   ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-07 22:15 ` [RFC] The reflink(2) system call v2 Joel Becker
2009-05-08  1:39   ` James Morris
2009-05-08  1:49     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-08 13:01       ` Tetsuo Handa
2009-05-08  2:59   ` jim owens
2009-05-08  3:10     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-08 11:53       ` jim owens
2009-05-08 12:16       ` jim owens
2009-05-08 14:11         ` jim owens
2009-05-11 20:40       ` [RFC] The reflink(2) system call v4 Joel Becker
2009-05-11 22:27         ` James Morris
2009-05-11 22:34           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12  1:12             ` James Morris
2009-05-12 12:18               ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-12 17:22                 ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 17:32                   ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-12 18:03                     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 18:04                       ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-12 18:28                         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 18:37                           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 18:06                         ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 18:25                           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 23:25                             ` James Morris
2009-05-15 11:54                               ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-15 13:35                                 ` James Morris
2009-05-15 15:44                                   ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-13  1:47                       ` Casey Schaufler
2009-05-13 16:43                         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-13 17:23                           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-13 18:27                             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 12:01           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-11 23:11         ` jim owens
2009-05-11 23:42           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 11:31         ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-12 13:12           ` jim owens
2009-05-12 20:24             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-14 18:43             ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-12 15:04         ` Sage Weil
2009-05-12 15:23           ` jim owens
2009-05-12 16:16             ` Sage Weil
2009-05-12 17:45               ` jim owens
2009-05-12 20:29                 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 17:28           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-13  4:30             ` Sage Weil
2009-05-14  3:57         ` Andy Lutomirski
2009-05-14 18:12           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 22:00             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-15  1:20               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-15 12:01               ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-15 15:22                 ` Joel Becker
2009-05-15 15:55                   ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-15 16:42                     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-15 17:01                       ` Shaya Potter
2009-05-15 20:53                       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-18  9:17                         ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-18 13:02                         ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-18 14:33                           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-18 17:15                             ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-18 18:26                           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-19 16:32                             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Sage Weil
2009-05-19 19:33                         ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-05-19 20:15                           ` Jamie Lokier
     [not found]                         ` <20090519132057.419b9de0@bike.lwn.net>
     [not found]                           ` <20090519193244.GB25521@mail.oracle.com>
2009-05-19 19:41                             ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-05-28  0:24         ` [RFC] The reflink(2) system call v5 Joel Becker
2009-09-14 22:24         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-11 20:49     ` [RFC] The reflink(2) system call v2 Joel Becker
2009-05-11 22:49       ` jim owens
2009-05-11 23:46         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12  0:54           ` Chris Mason
2009-05-12 20:36           ` Jamie Lokier

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