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From: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
To: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
Cc: Jens Axboe <jens.axboe@oracle.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: O_DIRECT and barriers
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:26:35 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090821142635.GB30617@infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090821135403.GA6208@shareable.org>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 02:54:03PM +0100, Jamie Lokier wrote:
> I've been thinking about this too, and for optimal performance with
> VMs and also with databases, I think FUA is too strong.  (It's also
> too weak, on drives which don't have FUA).


Why is FUA too strong?

> Fortunately there's already a sensible API for both: fdatasync (and
> aio_fsync) to mean flush, and O_DSYNC (or inferred from
> flush-after-one-write) to mean FUA.

I thought about this alot .  It would be sensible to only require
the FUA semantics if O_SYNC is specified.  But from looking around at
users of O_DIRECT no one seems to actually specify O_SYNC with it.
And on Linux where O_SYNC really means O_DYSNC that's pretty sensible -
if O_DIRECT bypasses the filesystem cache there is nothing else
left to sync for a non-extending write.  That is until those pesky disk
write back caches come into play that no application writer wants or
should have to understand.

> It turns out that applications needing integrity must use fdatasync or
> O_DSYNC (or O_SYNC) *already* with O_DIRECT, because the kernel may
> choose to use buffered writes at any time, with no signal to the
> application.

The fallback was a relatively recent addition to the O_DIRECT semantics
for broken filesystems that can't handle holes very well.  Fortunately
enough we do force O_SYNC (that is Linux O_SYNC aka Posix O_DSYNC)
semantics for that already.


  reply	other threads:[~2009-08-21 14:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 50+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <1250697884-22288-1-git-send-email-jack@suse.cz>
2009-08-20 22:12 ` O_DIRECT and barriers Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-21 11:40   ` Jens Axboe
2009-08-21 13:54     ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-21 14:26       ` Christoph Hellwig [this message]
2009-08-21 15:24         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-21 17:45           ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-21 19:18             ` Ric Wheeler
2009-08-22  0:50             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-22  2:19               ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-22  2:31                 ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-24  2:34               ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-27 14:34                 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-27 17:10                   ` adding proper O_SYNC/O_DSYNC, was " Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-27 17:24                     ` Ulrich Drepper
2009-08-28 15:46                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-28 16:06                         ` Ulrich Drepper
2009-08-28 16:17                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-28 16:33                             ` Ulrich Drepper
2009-08-28 16:41                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-28 20:51                                 ` Ulrich Drepper
2009-08-28 21:08                                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-28 21:16                                     ` Trond Myklebust
2009-08-28 21:29                                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-28 21:43                                         ` Trond Myklebust
2009-08-28 22:39                                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-30 16:44                                     ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-28 16:46                               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-29  0:59                                 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-28 16:44                         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-28 16:50                           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-28 21:08                           ` Ulrich Drepper
2009-08-30 16:58                             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-30 17:48                             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-28 23:06                         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-28 23:46                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-21 22:08         ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-21 22:38           ` Joel Becker
2009-08-21 22:45           ` Joel Becker
2009-08-22  2:11             ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-24  2:42               ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-24  2:37             ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-22  0:56           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-22  2:06             ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-26  6:34           ` Dave Chinner
2009-08-26 15:01             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-26 18:47               ` Theodore Tso
2009-08-27 14:50                 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-08-21 14:20     ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-08-21 15:06       ` James Bottomley
2009-08-21 15:23         ` Christoph Hellwig

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