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From: Valerie Aurora <vaurora@redhat.com>
To: "J. R. Okajima" <hooanon05@yahoo.co.jp>
Cc: Neil Brown <neilb@suse.de>,
	Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu>, Jan Blunck <jblunck@suse.de>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 14/39] union-mount: Union mounts documentation
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:48:39 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100824204839.GB28718@shell> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <6881.1282616917@jrobl>

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:28:37AM +0900, J. R. Okajima wrote:
> 
> Thank you for explanation, very much.

You are welcome!

> When a rename happens on a layer directly, aufs receives a
> inotify/fsnotify event. Following the event type, aufs makes the cached
> dentry/inode obsoleted and they will be lookup-ed again in the
> succeeding access. Finally aufs will know the upper parent_dir1 is not
> covering the lower parent_dir2 anymore.
> This notification is the main purpose of the strict option which is
> called "udba=notify" (User's Direct Branch Access).

No, that's not a sufficient description and leaves open questions
about all sorts of deadlocks and race conditions.  For example,
inotify events occur while holding locks only on one layer.  You
obviously need to lock the top layer to update the inheritance and
parent-child relationships.  Now you are locking the lower layer first
and the top layer second, which is the reverse of the usual order.
Also, it should not be an option.

If Al Viro says it's wrong, you need a very detailed explanation of
why it is right.  See Documentation/filesystem/directory-locking for
an example of the argument you have to make to show that moving things
around on the lower layer is safe.  In general, your first task is to
show a global lock ordering to prove lack of deadlocks (which I don't
think you should spend time on because most VFS experts think it is
impossible to do with two read-write layers).

I'm not going to explain any more how aufs is wrong; it's the
maintainer's job to convince Al Viro and other maintainers that aufs
is right.  But I hope this gave you a start and showed why union
mounts is a preferred approach for many people.

Thanks,

-VAL

  reply	other threads:[~2010-08-24 20:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 60+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-08-08 15:52 [PATCH 00/39] Union mounts - return d_ino from lower fs Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 01/39] VFS: Comment follow_mount() and friends Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 02/39] VFS: Make lookup_hash() return a struct path Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 03/39] VFS: Add read-only users count to superblock Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 04/39] autofs4: Save autofs trigger's vfsmount in super block info Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 05/39] whiteout/NFSD: Don't return information about whiteouts to userspace Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 06/39] whiteout: Add vfs_whiteout() and whiteout inode operation Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 07/39] whiteout: Set opaque flag if new directory was previously a whiteout Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 08/39] whiteout: Allow removal of a directory with whiteouts Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 09/39] whiteout: tmpfs whiteout support Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 10/39] whiteout: Split of ext2_append_link() from ext2_add_link() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 11/39] whiteout: ext2 whiteout support Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 12/39] whiteout: jffs2 " Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 13/39] fallthru: Basic fallthru definitions Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 14/39] union-mount: Union mounts documentation Valerie Aurora
2010-08-09 22:56   ` Neil Brown
2010-08-11  1:51     ` J. R. Okajima
2010-08-17 20:44     ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-17 22:53       ` Neil Brown
2010-08-18  0:15         ` Luca Barbieri
2010-08-18 19:04         ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-18  1:23       ` J. R. Okajima
2010-08-18 18:55         ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-19  1:34           ` J. R. Okajima
2010-08-24  0:05             ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-24  2:28               ` J. R. Okajima
2010-08-24 20:48                 ` Valerie Aurora [this message]
2010-08-25  2:59                   ` Christian Stroetmann
2010-08-25  5:03                   ` J. R. Okajima
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 15/39] union-mount: Introduce MNT_UNION and MS_UNION flags Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 16/39] union-mount: Introduce union_dir structure and basic operations Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 17/39] union-mount: Free union dirs on removal from dcache Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 18/39] union-mount: Support for union mounting file systems Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 19/39] union-mount: Implement union lookup Valerie Aurora
2010-08-13 13:49   ` Miklos Szeredi
2010-08-17 21:44     ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-18  8:11       ` Miklos Szeredi
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 20/39] union-mount: Call do_whiteout() on unlink and rmdir in unions Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 21/39] union-mount: Copy up directory entries on first readdir() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 22/39] union-mount: Add generic_readdir_fallthru() helper Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 23/39] fallthru: ext2 fallthru support Valerie Aurora
2010-08-13 13:52   ` Miklos Szeredi
2010-08-17 21:08     ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-17 22:28     ` Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 24/39] fallthru: jffs2 " Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 25/39] fallthru: tmpfs " Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 26/39] VFS: Split inode_permission() and create path_permission() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 27/39] VFS: Create user_path_nd() to lookup both parent and target Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 28/39] union-mount: In-kernel file copyup routines Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 29/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware access()/faccessat() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 30/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware link() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 31/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware rename() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 32/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware writable open() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 33/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware chown() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 34/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware truncate() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 35/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware chmod()/fchmodat() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 36/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware lchown() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 37/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware utimensat() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 38/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware setxattr() Valerie Aurora
2010-08-08 15:52 ` [PATCH 39/39] union-mount: Implement union-aware lsetxattr() Valerie Aurora

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