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From: Al Viro <viro@ZenIV.linux.org.uk>
To: Alexander Holler <holler@ahsoftware.de>
Cc: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/5] WIP: Add syscall unlinkat_s (currently x86* only)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2015 07:56:16 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20150203075616.GA29656@ZenIV.linux.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <54D071AA.1030302@ahsoftware.de>

On Tue, Feb 03, 2015 at 07:58:50AM +0100, Alexander Holler wrote:

> > Charming.  Now, what exactly happens if two such syscalls overlap in time?
> 
> What do you think will happen? I assume you haven't looked at how I've
> implemented set_secure_delete(). CHarming.

AFAICS, you get random unlink() happening at the same time hit by that
mess, whether they'd asked for it or not.  What's more, this counter
of yours is *not* guaranteed to be elevated during the final iput() of the
inode you wanted to get - again, ls -lR racing with that syscall can
elevate the refcount of dentry, making d_delete() in vfs_unlink() just
remove that dentry from hash, while keeping it positive.  If dentry
reference grabbed by stat(2) is released after both dput() and iput() in
do_unlinkat(), the final iput() will be done when stat(2) drops its
reference to dentry, triggering immediate dentry_kill() (since dentry
has already been unhashed) and dentry_iput() from it.

IOW, this counter is both too crude (it's fs-wide, for crying out loud)
*and* not guaranteed to cover enough.  _IF_ you want that behaviour at
all, it ought to be an in-core inode flag set by that syscall and
checked by truncation logics to decide whether to do normal truncate of
this "overwrite with zeroes" thing.

While we are at it, "overwrite with zeroes" is too weak if the attacker
might get hold of the actual hardware.  Google for details - it's far too
long story for l-k posting.  Look for data recovery and secure data erasure...

  reply	other threads:[~2015-02-03  7:56 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 55+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-02-02 17:05 [PATCH 0/5] RFC: Offer a way for userspace to request real deletion of files Alexander Holler
2015-02-02 17:05 ` [PATCH 1/5] WIP: Add syscall unlinkat_s (currently x86* only) Alexander Holler
2015-02-03  6:05   ` Al Viro
2015-02-03  6:58     ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-03  7:56       ` Al Viro [this message]
2015-02-03  8:01         ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-03  8:10           ` Al Viro
2015-02-03  8:17             ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-03  8:51         ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-03  9:23           ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-03 12:48             ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-03 12:54               ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-03 17:48               ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-02-03 18:01                 ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-03 23:33                   ` Al Viro
2015-02-04  0:18                     ` Alex Elsayed
2015-02-04  4:16                     ` Andreas Dilger
2015-02-04 10:19                     ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-04 12:07                       ` Lukáš Czerner
2015-02-04 12:22                         ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-04 12:42                           ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-04 12:50                             ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-04 13:07                               ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-04 13:06                           ` Michael Kerrisk
2015-02-04 13:21                             ` Alexander Holler
     [not found]                               ` <54D21CC8.4020705-SXC+2es9fhnfWeYVQQPykw@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-04 13:29                                 ` Alexander Holler
     [not found]                                   ` <54D21EB8.6020208-SXC+2es9fhnfWeYVQQPykw@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-04 14:19                                     ` Alexander Holler
     [not found]                                       ` <54D22A63.7090603-SXC+2es9fhnfWeYVQQPykw@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-04 15:00                                         ` Austin S Hemmelgarn
2015-02-04 14:52                                 ` Lukáš Czerner
     [not found]                                   ` <alpine.LFD.2.00.1502041533130.26766-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-04 16:12                                     ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-04 16:25                                       ` Lukáš Czerner
     [not found]                                       ` <alpine.LFD.2.00.15020 41724180.26766@localhost.localdomain>
     [not found]                                         ` <alpine.LFD.2.00.1502041724180.26766-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-04 16:45                                           ` Alexander Holler
     [not found]                                             ` <54D24CA5.6080603-SXC+2es9fhnfWeYVQQPykw@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-04 16:53                                               ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-04 19:33                                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2015-02-04 19:56                                     ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-03 16:44             ` Alex Elsayed
2015-02-03  7:58       ` Davidlohr Bueso
2015-02-03  7:52     ` Alexander Holler
     [not found]   ` <1422896713-25367-2-git-send-email-holler-SXC+2es9fhnfWeYVQQPykw@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-04  8:01     ` Michael Kerrisk
2015-02-02 17:05 ` [PATCH 2/5] WIP: fs: fat: support unlinkat_s() for secure deletion of files Alexander Holler
2015-02-02 17:05 ` [PATCH 3/5] WIP: fs: ext4: " Alexander Holler
2015-02-03 13:50   ` Lukáš Czerner
2015-02-03 14:50     ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-03 15:13       ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-03 15:24         ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-03 15:41       ` Lukáš Czerner
2015-02-03 15:46         ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-03 16:38         ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-03 18:50           ` Alexander Holler
2015-02-02 17:05 ` [PATCH 4/5] WIP: Add patch for coreutils to support unlinkat_s (x86_64 only) Alexander Holler
2015-02-02 17:05 ` [PATCH 5/5] WIP: Add test for unlinkat_s Alexander Holler
2015-02-03 15:15 ` [PATCH 0/5] RFC: Offer a way for userspace to request real deletion of files One Thousand Gnomes
2015-02-03 15:45   ` Alexander Holler
     [not found] ` <1422896713-25367-1-git-send-email-holler-SXC+2es9fhnfWeYVQQPykw@public.gmane.org>
2015-02-04  8:01   ` Michael Kerrisk
2015-02-06 12:17 ` Alexander Holler

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