* [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems
@ 2018-02-01 0:45 Andiry Xu
2018-02-01 1:03 ` Dan Williams
2018-02-01 1:47 ` Darrick J. Wong
0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Andiry Xu @ 2018-02-01 0:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: lsf-pc
Cc: Linux FS Devel, Linux MM, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org,
dan.j.williams, david, willy, swanson, jix024
PMEM/DAX should allow for significant improvements in file system
performance and enable new programming models that allow direct,
efficient access to PMEM from userspace. Achieving these gains in
existing file systems built for block devices (e.g., XFS and EXT4…)
presents a range of challenges (e.g.,
https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/9/11/159) and has been the subject of a lot
of recent work on ext4 and xfs.
An alternative is to build a NVMM-aware file system from scratch that
takes full advantage of the performance that PMEM offers and avoids
the complexity that block-based file systems include to maximize
performance on slow storage (e.g., relaxing atomicity constraints on
many operations). Of course, it also brings with it the complexity of
another file system.
We recently sent out a patch set for one-such “clean slate” NVMM-aware
file system called NOVA. NOVA is log-structured DAX file system with
several nice features:
* High performance, especially in metadata operations due to efficient
fine-grained logging
* High scalability with per-CPU memory pool and per-inode logging
* Strong metadata and data atomicity guarantees for all operations
* Full filesystem snapshot support with DAX-mmap
* Metadata replication/checksums and RAID-4 style data protection
At the summit, we would like to discuss the trade-offs between
adapting NVMM features to existing file systems vs. creating/adopting
a purpose-built file system for NVMM. NOVA serves as useful starting
point for that discussion by demonstrating what’s possible. It may
also suggest some features that could be adapted to other file systems
to improve NVMM performance.
We welcome people that are interested in file systems and NVM/DAX.
Particular people that would be useful to have in attendance are Dan
Williams, Dave Chinner, and Matthew Wilcox.
Thanks,
Andiry
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems
2018-02-01 0:45 [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems Andiry Xu
@ 2018-02-01 1:03 ` Dan Williams
2018-02-01 1:13 ` Dan Williams
2018-02-01 1:47 ` Darrick J. Wong
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Dan Williams @ 2018-02-01 1:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andiry Xu
Cc: lsf-pc, Linux FS Devel, Linux MM, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org,
david, Matthew Wilcox, swanson, jix024
On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:45 PM, Andiry Xu <andiry@gmail.com> wrote:
> PMEM/DAX should allow for significant improvements in file system
> performance and enable new programming models that allow direct,
> efficient access to PMEM from userspace. Achieving these gains in
> existing file systems built for block devices (e.g., XFS and EXT4…)
> presents a range of challenges (e.g.,
> https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/9/11/159) and has been the subject of a lot
> of recent work on ext4 and xfs.
>
> An alternative is to build a NVMM-aware file system from scratch that
> takes full advantage of the performance that PMEM offers and avoids
> the complexity that block-based file systems include to maximize
> performance on slow storage (e.g., relaxing atomicity constraints on
> many operations). Of course, it also brings with it the complexity of
> another file system.
>
> We recently sent out a patch set for one-such “clean slate” NVMM-aware
> file system called NOVA. NOVA is log-structured DAX file system with
> several nice features:
>
> * High performance, especially in metadata operations due to efficient
> fine-grained logging
> * High scalability with per-CPU memory pool and per-inode logging
> * Strong metadata and data atomicity guarantees for all operations
> * Full filesystem snapshot support with DAX-mmap
> * Metadata replication/checksums and RAID-4 style data protection
>
> At the summit, we would like to discuss the trade-offs between
> adapting NVMM features to existing file systems vs. creating/adopting
> a purpose-built file system for NVMM. NOVA serves as useful starting
> point for that discussion by demonstrating what’s possible. It may
> also suggest some features that could be adapted to other file systems
> to improve NVMM performance.
>
> We welcome people that are interested in file systems and NVM/DAX.
> Particular people that would be useful to have in attendance are Dan
> Williams, Dave Chinner, and Matthew Wilcox.
The rest of the fs-dax crew would also be useful to have:
Jan Kara
Ross Zwisler
--
To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems
2018-02-01 1:03 ` Dan Williams
@ 2018-02-01 1:13 ` Dan Williams
2018-02-07 10:41 ` Jan Kara
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Dan Williams @ 2018-02-01 1:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andiry Xu
Cc: lsf-pc, Linux FS Devel, Linux MM, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org,
david, Matthew Wilcox, swanson, jix024, Jan Kara, Ross Zwisler
[ adding Jan and Ross ]
On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 5:03 PM, Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:45 PM, Andiry Xu <andiry@gmail.com> wrote:
>> PMEM/DAX should allow for significant improvements in file system
>> performance and enable new programming models that allow direct,
>> efficient access to PMEM from userspace. Achieving these gains in
>> existing file systems built for block devices (e.g., XFS and EXT4…)
>> presents a range of challenges (e.g.,
>> https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/9/11/159) and has been the subject of a lot
>> of recent work on ext4 and xfs.
>>
>> An alternative is to build a NVMM-aware file system from scratch that
>> takes full advantage of the performance that PMEM offers and avoids
>> the complexity that block-based file systems include to maximize
>> performance on slow storage (e.g., relaxing atomicity constraints on
>> many operations). Of course, it also brings with it the complexity of
>> another file system.
>>
>> We recently sent out a patch set for one-such “clean slate” NVMM-aware
>> file system called NOVA. NOVA is log-structured DAX file system with
>> several nice features:
>>
>> * High performance, especially in metadata operations due to efficient
>> fine-grained logging
>> * High scalability with per-CPU memory pool and per-inode logging
>> * Strong metadata and data atomicity guarantees for all operations
>> * Full filesystem snapshot support with DAX-mmap
>> * Metadata replication/checksums and RAID-4 style data protection
>>
>> At the summit, we would like to discuss the trade-offs between
>> adapting NVMM features to existing file systems vs. creating/adopting
>> a purpose-built file system for NVMM. NOVA serves as useful starting
>> point for that discussion by demonstrating what’s possible. It may
>> also suggest some features that could be adapted to other file systems
>> to improve NVMM performance.
>>
>> We welcome people that are interested in file systems and NVM/DAX.
>> Particular people that would be useful to have in attendance are Dan
>> Williams, Dave Chinner, and Matthew Wilcox.
>
> The rest of the fs-dax crew would also be useful to have:
>
> Jan Kara
> Ross Zwisler
--
To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems
2018-02-01 1:13 ` Dan Williams
@ 2018-02-07 10:41 ` Jan Kara
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Jan Kara @ 2018-02-07 10:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dan Williams
Cc: Andiry Xu, lsf-pc, Linux FS Devel, Linux MM,
linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, david, Matthew Wilcox, swanson, jix024,
Jan Kara, Ross Zwisler
On Wed 31-01-18 17:13:37, Dan Williams wrote:
> [ adding Jan and Ross ]
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 5:03 PM, Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:45 PM, Andiry Xu <andiry@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> PMEM/DAX should allow for significant improvements in file system
> >> performance and enable new programming models that allow direct,
> >> efficient access to PMEM from userspace. Achieving these gains in
> >> existing file systems built for block devices (e.g., XFS and EXT4…)
> >> presents a range of challenges (e.g.,
> >> https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/9/11/159) and has been the subject of a lot
> >> of recent work on ext4 and xfs.
> >>
> >> An alternative is to build a NVMM-aware file system from scratch that
> >> takes full advantage of the performance that PMEM offers and avoids
> >> the complexity that block-based file systems include to maximize
> >> performance on slow storage (e.g., relaxing atomicity constraints on
> >> many operations). Of course, it also brings with it the complexity of
> >> another file system.
> >>
> >> We recently sent out a patch set for one-such “clean slate” NVMM-aware
> >> file system called NOVA. NOVA is log-structured DAX file system with
> >> several nice features:
> >>
> >> * High performance, especially in metadata operations due to efficient
> >> fine-grained logging
> >> * High scalability with per-CPU memory pool and per-inode logging
> >> * Strong metadata and data atomicity guarantees for all operations
> >> * Full filesystem snapshot support with DAX-mmap
> >> * Metadata replication/checksums and RAID-4 style data protection
> >>
> >> At the summit, we would like to discuss the trade-offs between
> >> adapting NVMM features to existing file systems vs. creating/adopting
> >> a purpose-built file system for NVMM. NOVA serves as useful starting
> >> point for that discussion by demonstrating what’s possible. It may
> >> also suggest some features that could be adapted to other file systems
> >> to improve NVMM performance.
> >>
> >> We welcome people that are interested in file systems and NVM/DAX.
> >> Particular people that would be useful to have in attendance are Dan
> >> Williams, Dave Chinner, and Matthew Wilcox.
> >
> > The rest of the fs-dax crew would also be useful to have:
> >
> > Jan Kara
> > Ross Zwisler
Thanks Dan. Yes, I'd be interested in discussions about NOVA. In fact I
guess the biggest obstacle is currently the review bandwidth. New
filesystem is a substantial chunk of code and although it does not have to
be perfect to include it in the kernel it still needs at least some basic
review...
Honza
--
Jan Kara <jack@suse.com>
SUSE Labs, CR
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems
2018-02-01 0:45 [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems Andiry Xu
2018-02-01 1:03 ` Dan Williams
@ 2018-02-01 1:47 ` Darrick J. Wong
2018-02-01 2:12 ` Andiry Xu
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Darrick J. Wong @ 2018-02-01 1:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andiry Xu
Cc: lsf-pc, Linux FS Devel, Linux MM, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org,
dan.j.williams, david, willy, swanson, jix024
On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 04:45:36PM -0800, Andiry Xu wrote:
> PMEM/DAX should allow for significant improvements in file system
> performance and enable new programming models that allow direct,
> efficient access to PMEM from userspace. Achieving these gains in
> existing file systems built for block devices (e.g., XFS and EXT4…)
> presents a range of challenges (e.g.,
> https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/9/11/159) and has been the subject of a lot
> of recent work on ext4 and xfs.
>
> An alternative is to build a NVMM-aware file system from scratch that
> takes full advantage of the performance that PMEM offers and avoids
> the complexity that block-based file systems include to maximize
> performance on slow storage (e.g., relaxing atomicity constraints on
> many operations). Of course, it also brings with it the complexity of
> another file system.
>
> We recently sent out a patch set for one-such “clean slate” NVMM-aware
> file system called NOVA. NOVA is log-structured DAX file system with
> several nice features:
That's the series that was sent out last August, correct?
> * High performance, especially in metadata operations due to efficient
> fine-grained logging
> * High scalability with per-CPU memory pool and per-inode logging
> * Strong metadata and data atomicity guarantees for all operations
> * Full filesystem snapshot support with DAX-mmap
> * Metadata replication/checksums and RAID-4 style data protection
>
> At the summit, we would like to discuss the trade-offs between
> adapting NVMM features to existing file systems vs. creating/adopting
> a purpose-built file system for NVMM. NOVA serves as useful starting
> point for that discussion by demonstrating what’s possible. It may
> also suggest some features that could be adapted to other file systems
> to improve NVMM performance.
>
> We welcome people that are interested in file systems and NVM/DAX.
> Particular people that would be useful to have in attendance are Dan
> Williams, Dave Chinner, and Matthew Wilcox.
I wouldn't mind being there too. :)
--D
>
> Thanks,
> Andiry
--
To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems
2018-02-01 1:47 ` Darrick J. Wong
@ 2018-02-01 2:12 ` Andiry Xu
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Andiry Xu @ 2018-02-01 2:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Darrick J. Wong
Cc: Andiry Xu, lsf-pc, Linux FS Devel, Linux MM,
linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, Dan Williams, Dave Chinner, willy,
Steven Swanson, Andiry Xu
On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Darrick J. Wong
<darrick.wong@oracle.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 04:45:36PM -0800, Andiry Xu wrote:
>> PMEM/DAX should allow for significant improvements in file system
>> performance and enable new programming models that allow direct,
>> efficient access to PMEM from userspace. Achieving these gains in
>> existing file systems built for block devices (e.g., XFS and EXT4…)
>> presents a range of challenges (e.g.,
>> https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/9/11/159) and has been the subject of a lot
>> of recent work on ext4 and xfs.
>>
>> An alternative is to build a NVMM-aware file system from scratch that
>> takes full advantage of the performance that PMEM offers and avoids
>> the complexity that block-based file systems include to maximize
>> performance on slow storage (e.g., relaxing atomicity constraints on
>> many operations). Of course, it also brings with it the complexity of
>> another file system.
>>
>> We recently sent out a patch set for one-such “clean slate” NVMM-aware
>> file system called NOVA. NOVA is log-structured DAX file system with
>> several nice features:
>
> That's the series that was sent out last August, correct?
>
Yes. We are preparing another round of submission.
>> * High performance, especially in metadata operations due to efficient
>> fine-grained logging
>> * High scalability with per-CPU memory pool and per-inode logging
>> * Strong metadata and data atomicity guarantees for all operations
>> * Full filesystem snapshot support with DAX-mmap
>> * Metadata replication/checksums and RAID-4 style data protection
>>
>> At the summit, we would like to discuss the trade-offs between
>> adapting NVMM features to existing file systems vs. creating/adopting
>> a purpose-built file system for NVMM. NOVA serves as useful starting
>> point for that discussion by demonstrating what’s possible. It may
>> also suggest some features that could be adapted to other file systems
>> to improve NVMM performance.
>>
>> We welcome people that are interested in file systems and NVM/DAX.
>> Particular people that would be useful to have in attendance are Dan
>> Williams, Dave Chinner, and Matthew Wilcox.
>
> I wouldn't mind being there too. :)
>
Welcome:)
Thanks,
Andiry
> --D
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Andiry
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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2018-02-01 0:45 [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems Andiry Xu
2018-02-01 1:03 ` Dan Williams
2018-02-01 1:13 ` Dan Williams
2018-02-07 10:41 ` Jan Kara
2018-02-01 1:47 ` Darrick J. Wong
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