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From: Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
Cc: Jeff Layton <jlayton@redhat.com>,
	lsf-pc <lsf-pc@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
	Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de>,
	Andreas Dilger <adilger@dilger.ca>,
	"Theodore Y. Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>,
	Ext4 Developers List <linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux FS Devel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com>
Subject: Re: fsync() errors is unsafe and risks data loss
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 19:38:14 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180414023814.GB997@bombadil.infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180414014752.GG23861@dastard>

On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 11:47:52AM +1000, Dave Chinner wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 07:02:32AM -0700, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > 1. If we get an error while wbc->for_background is true, we should not clear
> >    uptodate on the page, rather SetPageError and SetPageDirty.
> 
> So you're saying we should treat it as a transient error rather than
> a permanent error.

Yes, I'm proposing leaving the data in memory in case the user wants to
try writing it somewhere else.

> > 2. Background writebacks should skip pages which are PageError.
> 
> That seems decidedly dodgy in the case where there is a transient
> error - it requires a user to specifically run sync to get the data
> to disk after the transient error has occurred. Say they don't
> notice the problem because it's fleeting and doesn't cause any
> obvious problems?

That's fair.  What I want to avoid is triggering the same error every
30 seconds (or whatever the periodic writeback threshold is set to).

> e.g. XFS gets to enospc, runs out of reserve pool blocks so can't
> allocate space to write back the page, then space is freed up a few
> seconds later and so the next write will work just fine.
> 
> This is a recipe for "I lost data that I wrote /days/ before the
> system crashed" bug reports.

So ... exponential backoff on retries?

> > 3. for_sync writebacks should attempt one last write.  Maybe it'll
> >    succeed this time.  If it does, just ClearPageError.  If not, we have
> >    somebody to report this writeback error to, and ClearPageUptodate.
> 
> Which may well be unmount. Are we really going to wait until unmount
> to report fatal errors?

Goodness, no.  The errors would be immediately reportable using the wb_err
mechanism, as soon as the first error was encountered.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-04-14  2:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 57+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-04-10 22:07 fsync() errors is unsafe and risks data loss Andres Freund
2018-04-11 21:52 ` Andreas Dilger
2018-04-12  0:09   ` Dave Chinner
2018-04-12  2:32     ` Andres Freund
2018-04-12  2:51       ` Andres Freund
2018-04-12  5:09       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-12  5:45       ` Dave Chinner
2018-04-12 11:24         ` Jeff Layton
2018-04-12 21:11           ` Andres Freund
2018-04-12 10:19       ` Lukas Czerner
2018-04-12 19:46         ` Andres Freund
2018-04-12  2:17   ` Andres Freund
2018-04-12  3:02     ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-12 11:09       ` Jeff Layton
2018-04-12 11:19         ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-12 12:01         ` Dave Chinner
2018-04-12 15:08           ` Jeff Layton
2018-04-12 22:44             ` Dave Chinner
2018-04-13 13:18               ` Jeff Layton
2018-04-13 13:25                 ` Andres Freund
2018-04-13 14:02                 ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-14  1:47                   ` Dave Chinner
2018-04-14  2:04                     ` Andres Freund
2018-04-18 23:59                       ` Dave Chinner
2018-04-19  0:23                         ` Eric Sandeen
2018-04-14  2:38                     ` Matthew Wilcox [this message]
2018-04-19  0:13                       ` Dave Chinner
2018-04-19  0:40                         ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-19  1:08                           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-19 17:40                             ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-19 23:27                               ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-19 23:28                           ` Dave Chinner
2018-04-12 15:16           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-12 20:13             ` Andres Freund
2018-04-12 20:28               ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-12 21:14                 ` Jeff Layton
2018-04-12 21:31                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-13 12:56                     ` Jeff Layton
2018-04-12 21:21                 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-12 21:24                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-12 21:37                   ` Andres Freund
2018-04-12 20:24         ` Andres Freund
2018-04-12 21:27           ` Jeff Layton
2018-04-12 21:53             ` Andres Freund
2018-04-12 21:57               ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-21 18:14         ` Jan Kara
2018-04-12  5:34     ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-12 19:55       ` Andres Freund
2018-04-12 21:52         ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-04-12 22:03           ` Andres Freund
2018-04-18 18:09     ` J. Bruce Fields
2018-04-13 14:48 ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-21 16:59   ` Jan Kara
     [not found] <8da874c9-cf9c-d40a-3474-b773190878e7@commandprompt.com>
     [not found] ` <20180410184356.GD3563@thunk.org>
2018-04-10 19:47   ` Martin Steigerwald
2018-04-18 16:52     ` J. Bruce Fields
2018-04-19  8:39       ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-04-19 14:10         ` J. Bruce Fields

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