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From: jim owens <jowens@hp.com>
To: Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>, joel.becker@oracle.com
Cc: Andreas Dilger <adilger@sun.com>,
	Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, jmorris@namei.org,
	ocfs2-devel@oss.oracle.com, viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk
Subject: Re: [Ocfs2-devel] [PATCH 1/3] fs: Document the reflink(2) system call.
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 10:24:41 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4A019DA9.4050700@hp.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090506071531.GB6976@mit.edu>

So summarizing the main argument of the day,
there are 2 different functions proposed:

1) "snapfile" - Joel's reflink(2) design.

The definition is good.  It makes writable snapshots
possible, and is security safe with CAP_FOWNER added
as a requirement because CAP_CHOWN is very restricted
in the real world.  Only the owner and admin can reflink.
For the admin to use it in backups, it must be a single
call as Joel said, a point in time of data and attributes.

If the name "reflink" is the problem, call it something else.

2) "cowfilecopy" - Ted's/Jamie's kernel cp.

Again, the definition makes sense.  The security model
is simply "current read access to the file", so anyone
who can read it can make almost-zero-space-consumed copy
of a file.

--- analysis ---

You ask why not use a 2-step "cowfilecopy" and "attrfilecopy"
to do "snapfile"... because that is not an atomic snapshot.

The security and "might not know about it" concerns are bogus:
No extra visibility exists to future updates of the original
file that would not exist without either snapfile or cowfilecopy.
That BOTH point at your old data is no different than if root
or raid was copying every disk block to permanent storage. If
you write it, someone can have it later.

So bottom line... I see no reason (except someone has to document)
why we should not have 2 system calls since there are good uses
and good definitions for both and the code is 99% identical.

jim

  reply	other threads:[~2009-05-06 14:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 151+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-05-03  6:15 [RFC] The reflink(2) system call Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:15 ` [PATCH 1/3] fs: Document the " Joel Becker
2009-05-03  8:01   ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-04  2:46     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-04  6:36       ` Michael Kerrisk
2009-05-04  7:12         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03 13:08   ` Boaz Harrosh
2009-05-03 23:08     ` Al Viro
2009-05-04  2:49     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03 23:45   ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-04  1:44     ` Tao Ma
2009-05-04 18:25       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-04 21:18         ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-04 22:23           ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-05  6:55             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05  1:07   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05  7:16     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05  8:09       ` Andreas Dilger
2009-05-05 16:56         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 21:24           ` Andreas Dilger
2009-05-05 21:32             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-06  7:15               ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Theodore Tso
2009-05-06 14:24                 ` jim owens [this message]
2009-05-06 14:30                   ` jim owens
2009-05-06 17:50                     ` jim owens
2009-05-12 19:20                       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 19:30                       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 19:11                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 19:37                     ` jim owens
2009-05-12 20:11                       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 13:01       ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-05 13:19         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 13:39           ` Chris Mason
2009-05-05 15:36             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 15:41               ` Chris Mason
2009-05-05 16:03                 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 16:18                   ` Chris Mason
2009-05-05 20:48                   ` jim owens
2009-05-05 21:57                     ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:04                       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 22:11                         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:24                           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 23:14                             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:12                         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:21                           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 22:32                             ` James Morris
2009-05-05 22:39                               ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 19:40                               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:28                         ` jim owens
2009-05-05 23:12                           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 16:46               ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-05 16:54                 ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-05 22:03                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 21:44                 ` copyfile semantics Andreas Dilger
2009-05-05 21:48                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2009-05-05 22:25                     ` Trond Myklebust
2009-05-05 22:06                   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-06  5:57                   ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-05 14:21           ` [PATCH 1/3] fs: Document the reflink(2) system call Theodore Tso
2009-05-05 15:32             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:49             ` James Morris
2009-05-05 17:05           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 17:00         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 17:29           ` Theodore Tso
2009-05-05 22:36             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:30           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 22:37             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-05 23:08             ` jim owens
2009-05-05 13:01       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-05 17:09         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:15 ` [PATCH 2/3] fs: Add vfs_reflink() and the ->reflink() inode operation Joel Becker
2009-05-03  8:03   ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-04  2:51     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:15 ` [PATCH 3/3] fs: Add the reflink(2) system call Joel Becker
2009-05-03  6:27   ` Matthew Wilcox
2009-05-03  6:39     ` Al Viro
2009-05-03  7:48       ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-03 11:16         ` Al Viro
2009-05-04  2:53       ` Joel Becker
2009-05-04  2:53     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-03  8:04   ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-05-07 22:15 ` [RFC] The reflink(2) system call v2 Joel Becker
2009-05-08  1:39   ` James Morris
2009-05-08  1:49     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-08 13:01       ` Tetsuo Handa
2009-05-08  2:59   ` jim owens
2009-05-08  3:10     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-08 11:53       ` jim owens
2009-05-08 12:16       ` jim owens
2009-05-08 14:11         ` jim owens
2009-05-11 20:40       ` [RFC] The reflink(2) system call v4 Joel Becker
2009-05-11 22:27         ` James Morris
2009-05-11 22:34           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12  1:12             ` James Morris
2009-05-12 12:18               ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-12 17:22                 ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 17:32                   ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-12 18:03                     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 18:04                       ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-12 18:28                         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 18:37                           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 18:06                         ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 18:25                           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 23:25                             ` James Morris
2009-05-15 11:54                               ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-15 13:35                                 ` James Morris
2009-05-15 15:44                                   ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-13  1:47                       ` Casey Schaufler
2009-05-13 16:43                         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-13 17:23                           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-13 18:27                             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 12:01           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-11 23:11         ` jim owens
2009-05-11 23:42           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12 11:31         ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-12 13:12           ` jim owens
2009-05-12 20:24             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-14 18:43             ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-12 15:04         ` Sage Weil
2009-05-12 15:23           ` jim owens
2009-05-12 16:16             ` Sage Weil
2009-05-12 17:45               ` jim owens
2009-05-12 20:29                 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-12 17:28           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-13  4:30             ` Sage Weil
2009-05-14  3:57         ` Andy Lutomirski
2009-05-14 18:12           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-14 22:00             ` Joel Becker
2009-05-15  1:20               ` Jamie Lokier
2009-05-15 12:01               ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-15 15:22                 ` Joel Becker
2009-05-15 15:55                   ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-15 16:42                     ` Joel Becker
2009-05-15 17:01                       ` Shaya Potter
2009-05-15 20:53                       ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Joel Becker
2009-05-18  9:17                         ` Jörn Engel
2009-05-18 13:02                         ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-18 14:33                           ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-18 17:15                             ` Stephen Smalley
2009-05-18 18:26                           ` Joel Becker
2009-05-19 16:32                             ` [Ocfs2-devel] " Sage Weil
2009-05-19 19:33                         ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-05-19 20:15                           ` Jamie Lokier
     [not found]                         ` <20090519132057.419b9de0@bike.lwn.net>
     [not found]                           ` <20090519193244.GB25521@mail.oracle.com>
2009-05-19 19:41                             ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-05-28  0:24         ` [RFC] The reflink(2) system call v5 Joel Becker
2009-09-14 22:24         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-11 20:49     ` [RFC] The reflink(2) system call v2 Joel Becker
2009-05-11 22:49       ` jim owens
2009-05-11 23:46         ` Joel Becker
2009-05-12  0:54           ` Chris Mason
2009-05-12 20:36           ` Jamie Lokier

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