From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84DD85D8FA; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 10:30:12 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1709116212; cv=none; b=EE9E/FJF9UCg2lGKNtF8H967EFhAWrmd3xEk4FKMprqv0EPKbX8y1sJOhTZ5WPGa3qq4eAo3gPZj5rEqM+WiwhlE/1/VQcYV/5278PtxYEt2W6j6Ornd106A4qz1EijeW/0b4D7lR1hyiqEn70HVLpmvpVaMzp4spn9qStwogzc= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1709116212; c=relaxed/simple; bh=hpolM+N5y6/sz+KjaBNoo1IPYVCGk1h3yY40YMb19/g=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=KCBkIofcfXnDrelPFT7fXX8JQFgKDs2nYHVYu8UCcbwd/vgj36LYKQAzILgeWI4u8t81Evpzp3u52uYPn5T0syOXAxGebK5BirjPi0Aeag4eqNFwfvWPsWfjLbvWA+eN57f+IjkiYOr7D27DFddp77fYHDA4jyuN3E9wrb2xhn8= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=jp/67nMY; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="jp/67nMY" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 65AA5C433C7; Wed, 28 Feb 2024 10:30:11 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1709116212; bh=hpolM+N5y6/sz+KjaBNoo1IPYVCGk1h3yY40YMb19/g=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=jp/67nMYDmoSWg5Nzka4TO/i+jF5BwwL2ruGmkHjkx+xD+XLVs0vVJD8ua/NHuCQY ITKnRh2ryCrlA0kuD/85mSPSKDia6APDEe6yXNZv6cchiTy8yOB4za1Sd/Cb6FOISZ DONgSt/vU9cMqnaVDhQRBhju4GWTx9lmLvMajDkHSat3JEKbXWx30kGj7/qy1o8+cO YYzsPRPaLA/HFWjAr+1xNkOpifG9TD5l27+VCofQTF9KcM3epIjKNXou9eZXT2R49G whroiaE5R5JRQxOhM3//pbz74AG9i3OQa+Jcx3oSFrxBiW2uCYCwqWjWbdzK/pb2/H l0opUMpgoqX1Q== Message-ID: <4f15410284805166ee39d831adb3f492d2ef2937.camel@kernel.org> Subject: Re: [PATCHSET v29.4 03/13] xfs: atomic file content exchanges From: Jeff Layton To: Dave Chinner Cc: Amir Goldstein , "Darrick J. Wong" , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org, hch@lst.de Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2024 05:30:10 -0500 In-Reply-To: References: <170900011604.938268.9876750689883987904.stgit@frogsfrogsfrogs> <4e29a0395b3963e6a48f916baaf16394acd017ca.camel@kernel.org> Autocrypt: addr=jlayton@kernel.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata=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 kZWuOsJdJQdmwlWC5L5ln9xgfr/4mOY38B0U= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.50.4 (3.50.4-1.fc39) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 On Wed, 2024-02-28 at 10:46 +1100, Dave Chinner wrote: > On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 05:53:46AM -0500, Jeff Layton wrote: > > On Tue, 2024-02-27 at 11:23 +0200, Amir Goldstein wrote: > > > On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 4:18=E2=80=AFAM Darrick J. Wong wrote: > > > And for a new API, wouldn't it be better to use change_cookie (a.k.a = i_version)? >=20 > Like xfs_fsr doing online defrag, we really only care about explicit > user data changes here, not internal layout and metadata changes to > the files... >=20 > > > Even if this API is designed to be hoisted out of XFS at some future = time, > > > Is there a real need to support it on filesystems that do not support > > > i_version(?) > > >=20 > > > Not to mention the fact that POSIX does not explicitly define how cti= me should > > > behave with changes to fiemap (uninitialized extent and all), so who = knows > > > how other filesystems may update ctime in those cases. > > >=20 > > > I realize that STATX_CHANGE_COOKIE is currently kernel internal, but > > > it seems that XFS_IOC_EXCHANGE_RANGE is a case where userspace > > > really explicitly requests a bump of i_version on the next change. > > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > I agree. Using an opaque change cookie would be a lot nicer from an API > > standpoint, and shouldn't be subject to timestamp granularity issues. > >=20 > > That said, XFS's change cookie is currently broken. Dave C. said he had > > some patches in progress to fix that however. >=20 > By "fix", I meant "remove". >=20 > i.e. the patches I was proposing were to remove SB_I_VERSION support > from XFS so NFS just uses the ctime on XFS because the recent > changes to i_version make it a ctime change counter, not an inode > change counter. >=20 > Then patches were posted for finer grained inode timestamps to allow > everything to use ctime instead of i_version, and with that I > thought NFS was just going to change to ctime for everyone with that > the whole change cookie issue was going away. >=20 > It now sounds like that isn't happening, so I'll just ressurect the > patch to remove published SB_I_VERSION and STATX_CHANGE_COOKIE > support from XFS for now and us XFS people can just go back to > ignoring this problem again. I must have misunderstood what you said when we were at LPC this year: After the multigrain ctime patches were reverted, you mentioned that you were working on a patchset that used the unused bits in the tv_nsec field as counter for counting changes that have occurred within the same tv_nsec value. Did those not pan out for some reason? --=20 Jeff Layton