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a=lCpzRmAYbLLaTzLvsPZ7Mbvzbb8=:19 a=wKuvFiaSGQ0qltdbU6+NXLB8nM8=:19 a=Ol13hO9ccFRV9qXi2t6ftBPywas=:19 a=kLWA3gBXtu5QbDPQ:21 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=Wb1JkmetP80A:10 a=GoEa3M9JfhUA:10 a=_4416MSJwGB3MlLbwpAA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 cc=ntf awl=host:12061 X-Proofpoint-GUID: bMO93h46D5Jbvw9Izf3Mh_b0S5ropAGs X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details-Enc: AW1haW4tMjUwNzE0MDA5NiBTYWx0ZWRfX61f2KkX8gS+A +TsImqjIptxwD+KsS0cdxWSuF/XIqkozujMrT8cS0GPyhRPlRAqvNzbzfn3mwhj2wOypSq8IzUR Hf3sJFdOl7iEHhgvVoYvmQqkxAgNZuFzIDDNIdp6MgkJTgsjwCuuUb7bHqDcc5JdTNZWmJgsTLS gTiWid2SvTz7n1Gn2yEnz9N5sFFmxsWecWkkpI1Lkn6Ks8U+5PkXyoG4j/pYUpv/MAL1T0Sr4tS 8dQR4rs7YfRmubyArxQVZJghHMpnq5gpHVFIqAIs4IgI9DfbTbFNojZpqT2W2o13R+d4gJ9os5a REQFHok76Hlp8xRAOlsJw6M+G+z7vM/wUMCpsmUtvEO11LZbK1RS+VUpsgyl6CoO7jV8tdg/edk lGM8Ygz2+/AxLhmT3ZRmMYAGhl3FTqSL18Sm38W9joJyDth9kNmxq39C5Y07CHa+2oYUcQ7d On 14/07/2025 14:50, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > On Mon, Jul 14, 2025 at 02:39:54PM +0100, John Garry wrote: >> On 14/07/2025 14:17, Christoph Hellwig wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I'm currently trying to sort out the nvme atomics limits mess, and >>> between that, the lack of a atomic write command in nvme, and the >>> overall degrading quality of cheap consumer nvme devices I'm starting >>> to free really uneasy about XFS using hardware atomics by default without >>> an explicit opt-in, as broken atomics implementations will lead to >>> really subtle data corruption. >>> >>> Is is just me, or would it be a good idea to require an explicit >>> opt-in to user hardware atomics? >> >> But isn't this just an NVMe issue? I would assume that we would look at such >> an option in the NVMe driver (to opt in when we are concerned about the >> implementation), and not the FS. SCSI is ok AFAIK. > > SCSI is a better standard, and modulo USB devices doesn't have as much > of an issue with cheap consumer devices. > > But form the file system POV we've spent the last decade or so hardening > file systems against hardware failures, so now suddenly using such a > high risk feature automatically feels a bit odd. > I see. I figure that something like a FS_XFLAG could be used for that. But we should still protect bdev fops users as well. JFYI, I have done a good bit of HW and SW-based atomic powerfail testing with fio on a Linux dev board, so there is a decent method available for users to verify their HW atomics. But then testing power failures is not always practical. Crashing the kernel only tests AWUN, and AWUPF (for NVMe).