From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=3.0 tests=DKIMWL_WL_MED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F2E2C4360F for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 06:57:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F1A12087B for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2019 06:57:54 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=paul-moore-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@paul-moore-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="OcCZh083" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1726688AbfBTG5s (ORCPT ); Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:57:48 -0500 Received: from mail-lj1-f193.google.com ([209.85.208.193]:38261 "EHLO mail-lj1-f193.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726064AbfBTG5s (ORCPT ); Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:57:48 -0500 Received: by mail-lj1-f193.google.com with SMTP id j19so19038083ljg.5 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 22:57:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=paul-moore-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ncoDYnqxH3gs9Sc4jdqZc699sEVY31p6X34ojqSqzzM=; b=OcCZh083AzJ6sYc48woP23gRRbpaNKLC68TAdlArP77RO3+mrjVrj/iw4ZpWg3rNV3 29swcTzY/zTMAOqxs45u579zp81oWJDiOwSJh6tom9D/tAOgnuzVSLlkcuqb8zkvn041 kOisgtVcvn0D2ldK2m99xkgmKknYygp1QYdTxOKnNijCZ/APmJ7hGFeM3e3VsCDdMErt wx0sR0iBJ+9HphZXJkooMsrO2GYHiQuoD7D0L5Nb1CAmiVGw+uEgE5SHW+LeT4H60qrm snbkENIP97Ktg8O/dDr3jUbp95t4Oa9ezjlJLisfHr/j4+wT/VqcxY16IMT2kuOtYSUn LRcw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ncoDYnqxH3gs9Sc4jdqZc699sEVY31p6X34ojqSqzzM=; b=o7XXdCXk5kbBDL1N1lLrYJuLBFnXG+kpeNXVoESJglUOxkC70eNuFLP7C6C695qDVT bm8STZf465MdA5LQ/b4Pgra2KvQvSD1H72ePiis3g1D06mQLTNUCSysr91AnpUKQSjF7 F4IR2dwlSbiDy436lVf6SyhHm9ahCvgwtZFTIN65psppFL9eui/ArD5AZvWjDLYn2Lgw x6tnLp+R8vkHrAu1+sb4Nm1PRAvdKeKtI7MOqSSB+iW8/Pp+v6G3qFKVTocSf8CsC3tz kLHuHaZp6URF3Um0dTBWf5mKyIrpH6u2Fz/+X977V8zJhC1o9A4pGKkOjbyxn81o6vl+ qyBw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuYNKeSRCroBxjVEQQ6zCxTmaCwS7jKqSFIR3/obkabKG8ru5QBB VQesI0s5rtGKaQrOEFz1Kqh/RwZ49SRU4eWJuxDW X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IYNFpwogVRQTUBcod7un1tdomwmO6KB9Kx4d3EN4057kTMV12Wev9+tRhU4ylfg5rpiF1lmm8LPwJmAQFU2rTo= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:2419:: with SMTP id k25mr8500519ljk.38.1550645865873; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 22:57:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1550432358.2809.21.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <155024683432.21651.14153938339749694146.stgit@warthog.procyon.org.uk> <155024685321.21651.1504201877881622756.stgit@warthog.procyon.org.uk> <19562.1550617574@warthog.procyon.org.uk> <1550629220.11684.3.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <054c1e762d28306abd4db9c42fb1c5f4261332fd.camel@themaw.net> <1550634367.11684.6.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: <1550634367.11684.6.camel@HansenPartnership.com> From: Paul Moore Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:57:34 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 02/27] containers: Implement containers as kernel objects To: James Bottomley Cc: Ian Kent , David Howells , keyrings@vger.kernel.org, trond.myklebust@hammerspace.com, sfrench@samba.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, rgb@redhat.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, containers@lists.linux-foundation.org, cgroups@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: linux-fsdevel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 10:46 PM James Bottomley wrote: > On Wed, 2019-02-20 at 11:04 +0800, Ian Kent wrote: > > On Tue, 2019-02-19 at 18:20 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > > > On Tue, 2019-02-19 at 23:06 +0000, David Howells wrote: > > > > James Bottomley wrote: > > > > > > > > > I thought we got agreement years ago that containers don't > > > > > exist in Linux as a single entity: they're currently a > > > > > collection of cgroups and namespaces some of which may and some > > > > > of which may not be local to the entity the orchestration > > > > > system thinks of as a "container". > > > > > > > > I wasn't party to that agreement and don't feel particularly > > > > bound by it. > > > > > > That's not at all relevant, is it? The point is we have widespread > > > uses of namespaces and cgroups that span containers today meaning > > > that a "container id" becomes a problematic concept. What we > > > finally got to with the audit people was an unmodifiable label > > > which the orchestration system can set ... can't you just use that? > > > > Sorry James, I fail to see how assigning an id to a collection of > > objects constitutes a problem or how that could restrict the way a > > container is used. > > Rather than rehash the whole argument again, what's the reason you > can't use the audit label? It seems to do what you want in a way that > doesn't cause problems. If you can just use it there's little point > arguing over what is effectively a moot issue. Ignoring for a moment whether or not the audit container ID is applicable here, one of the things I've been focused on with the audit container ID work is trying to make it difficult for other subsystems to use it. I've taken this stance not because I don't think something like a container ID would be useful outside the audit subsystem, but rather because I'm afraid of how it might be abused by other subsystems and that abuse might threaten the existence of the audit container ID. If there is a willingness to implement a general kernel container ID that behaves similarly to how the audit container ID is envisioned, I'd much rather do that then implement something which is audit specific. -- paul moore www.paul-moore.com