From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74342147C72; Thu, 16 May 2024 20:00:31 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1715889632; cv=none; b=hIyQi+lMmNuXrlsMeCbgNCI3jjbFMP2Pvi/8HyYMzhRURFlJZqzM2YTAQ/pI+YQ3w5c7T1CK2FwawV4YUgNRj/Dn4qFTXnFkI6yrOuBM4+rm9+DWMvs5VWcLpJcPn/MUrOKXMx8pYMsxdr4enoStqsvu59kju91CTWACbainGz0= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1715889632; c=relaxed/simple; bh=oIo0+8UooOueZ1JprNItUa0mTgu6yRRFRPC/LxHzJLc=; h=Mime-Version:Content-Type:Date:Message-Id:Cc:Subject:From:To: References:In-Reply-To; b=nbUWc+n/aQwaDVjXvu6F3qxOAl6dOQlz9+KQHNgCPe10kCorXIDVINUrtM73uSbKCpZGW/noh8yf8nODifBFfhJy3c4U/pUasjdxXcxtQfddWnqk0eJWAiHYCUE9xePXYBVVSW7FC7ynefQFBjAybKgCzs3+alNWU4AECBioHR4= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=IH/2JEns; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="IH/2JEns" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7A118C32786; Thu, 16 May 2024 20:00:27 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1715889631; bh=oIo0+8UooOueZ1JprNItUa0mTgu6yRRFRPC/LxHzJLc=; h=Date:Cc:Subject:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=IH/2JEnsmDlYis68tcQXP1jSBA3ibITkeUFmxniYgQGaAs8DNqOT3EwnUgSJb54CN V/7atgZBY8hdRJNdhMccnbCD6Y2By6cug68ykSbUtakB88OoXt83+xmsWJQwmDIwV3 IMXfl9FqhLGH6Q3knt2DUpZy57l9tgtg6mb27STOgCXdyXNG2KqIYjS9QF/FnZYzni ovbTzu5ZAgbTjdXtGfvC2f6aZbXlt7DUW4zMhSE3TWaH1ZT6+RQ8wEy8wERHyplnPu MTib+i7N8RLjx3SYSlUB+xa50dKhMGTXW1GVh7koRG6VUfZsG0PEpI9fzyqHpXtd25 wmqhq7DJUp77A== Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 23:00:25 +0300 Message-Id: Cc: , , , , Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/3] Introduce user namespace capabilities From: "Jarkko Sakkinen" To: "Jarkko Sakkinen" , "Casey Schaufler" , "Jonathan Calmels" , , , "Luis Chamberlain" , "Kees Cook" , "Joel Granados" , "Serge Hallyn" , "Paul Moore" , "James Morris" , "David Howells" X-Mailer: aerc 0.17.0 References: <20240516092213.6799-1-jcalmels@3xx0.net> <2804dd75-50fd-481c-8867-bc6cea7ab986@schaufler-ca.com> In-Reply-To: On Thu May 16, 2024 at 10:31 PM EEST, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote: > On Thu May 16, 2024 at 10:29 PM EEST, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote: > > On Thu May 16, 2024 at 10:07 PM EEST, Casey Schaufler wrote: > > > I suggest that adding a capability set for user namespaces is a bad i= dea: > > > - It is in no way obvious what problem it solves > > > - It is not obvious how it solves any problem > > > - The capability mechanism has not been popular, and relying on a > > > community (e.g. container developers) to embrace it based on this > > > enhancement is a recipe for failure > > > - Capabilities are already more complicated than modern developers > > > want to deal with. Adding another, special purpose set, is going > > > to make them even more difficult to use. > > > > What Inh, Prm, Eff, Bnd and Amb is not dead obvious to you? ;-) > > One UNs cannot hurt... > > > > I'm not following containers that much but didn't seccomp profiles > > supposed to be the silver bullet? > > Also, I think Kata Containers style way of doing containers is pretty > solid. I've heard that some video streaming service at least in recent > past did launch VM per stream so it's not like VM's cannot be made to > scale I guess. Sorry for multiple responses but this actually nails the key question: who will use this? Even if this would work out somehow, is there someone who will actually use this, and not few other more robust solutions available? I mean it is worth of time to maintain it, if there is no potential users for a feature. In addition to "show me the code", there is always also "show me the payloa= d". BR, Jarkko