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From: James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>
To: Chris Mason <chris.mason@oracle.com>
Cc: Stephen Smalley <sds@tycho.nsa.gov>,
	Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb@suse.de>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	Crispin Cowan <crispin@novell.com>, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>,
	Andreas Gruenbacher <agruen@suse.de>,
	jjohansen@suse.de, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [AppArmor 39/45] AppArmor: Profile loading and manipulation, pathname matching
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:48:12 -0400 (EDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Line.LNX.4.64.0706220858170.5751@localhost.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20070622121742.GC6222@think.oraclecorp.com>

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007, Chris Mason wrote:

> > The validity or otherwise of pathname access control is not being 
> > discussed here.
> > 
> > The point is that the pathname model does not generalize, and that 
> > AppArmor's inability to provide adequate coverage of the system is a 
> > design issue arising from this.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I don't see where in the paragraphs above you aren't
> making a general argument against the pathname model.

There are two distinct concepts here.

A. Pathname labeling - applying access control to pathnames to objects, 
rather than labeling the objects themselves.

Think of this as, say, securing your house by putting a gate in the street 
in front of the house, regardless of how many other possible paths there 
are to the house via other streets, adjoining properties etc.

Pathname labeling and mediation is simply mediating a well-known path to 
the object.  In this analogy, object labeling would instead ensure that 
all of the accessible doors, windows and other entrances of the house were 
locked, so that someone trying to break in from the rear alley would 
not get in simply by bypassing the front gate and opening any door.

What you do with AppArmor, instead of addressing the problem, is just 
redefine the environment along the lines of "set your house into a rock 
wall so there is only one path to it".


B. Pathname access control as a general abstraction for OS security.

Which is what was being discussed above, in response to a question from 
Lars about technical issues, and that this _model_ doesn't generalize to 
the rest of the OS, regardless of whether you think the mechanism of 
pathname labeling itself is appropriate or not.

In any case, clarifying such a distinction should not obscure the central 
issue, which is: AppArmor's design is broken.

General users, many kernel developers, and even security researchers who 
have not yet looked under the covers [1], are probably unaware that the 
confinement claims being made about AppArmor's confinement capabilities 
are simply not possible with either its model or implementation.

To quote from:

http://www.novell.com/linux/security/apparmor/

  "AppArmor gives you network application security via mandatory access 
   control for programs, protecting against the exploitation of software 
   flaws and compromised systems. AppArmor includes everything you need to 
   provide effective containment for programs (including those that run as 
   root) to thwart attempted exploits and even zero-day attacks."

This is not accurate in any sense of the term containment of mandatory 
access control that I've previously encountered.

The fact that it doesn't work as expected does not arise simply from 
missing features or being "different".  It arises from the design of the 
system, which uses a pathname abstraction, where, even if we agree to 
ignore issue (1) above, still does not work, because only filesystem 
interactions are mediated.

AppArmor policy does not reflect the behavior of the system.

The "simple" policy that users can so effortlessly manipulate is simple 
because it is wrong, and deliberately so.

The design of the AppArmor is based on _appearing simple_, but at the 
expense of completeness and thus correctness.


[1] http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/4/19/357

  "My gosh, you're right.  What the heck?  With all due respect to the
   developers of AppArmor, I can't help thinking that that's pretty lame.
   I think this raises substantial questions about the value of AppArmor.
   What is the point of having a jail if it leaves gaping holes that
   malicious code could use to escape?

   And why isn't this documented clearly, with the implications fully
   explained?"  - David Wagner, http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/
     

Indeed.



- James
-- 
James Morris
<jmorris@namei.org>

  reply	other threads:[~2007-06-22 13:48 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 213+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-05-14 11:06 [AppArmor 00/45] AppArmor security module overview jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 01/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_create LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 02/45] Pass struct path down to remove_suid and children jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 03/45] Add a vfsmount parameter to notify_change() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 04/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_setattr LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 05/45] Add struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_mkdir() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 06/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_mkdir LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 07/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_mknod() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 08/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_mknod LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 09/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_symlink() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 10/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_symlink LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 11/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_readlink " jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 12/45] Add struct vfsmount parameters to vfs_link() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 13/45] Pass the struct vfsmounts to the inode_link LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 14/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_rmdir() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 15/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_rmdir LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 16/45] Call lsm hook before unhashing dentry in vfs_rmdir() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 17/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_unlink() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 18/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_unlink LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 19/45] Add struct vfsmount parameters to vfs_rename() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 20/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_rename LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 21/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_setxattr() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 22/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_setxattr LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 23/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_getxattr() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 24/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_getxattr LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 25/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_listxattr() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 26/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_listxattr LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 27/45] Add a struct vfsmount parameter to vfs_removexattr() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 28/45] Pass struct vfsmount to the inode_removexattr LSM hook jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 29/45] Fix __d_path() for lazy unmounts and make it unambiguous jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 30/45] Make d_path() consistent across mount operations jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 31/45] Add d_namespace_path() to compute namespace relative pathnames jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 32/45] Enable LSM hooks to distinguish operations on file descriptors from operations on pathnames jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 33/45] Pass struct file down the inode_*xattr security LSM hooks jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 34/45] Factor out sysctl pathname code jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 35/45] Allow permission functions to tell between parent and leaf checks jjohansen
2007-05-15  9:08   ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 36/45] Export audit subsystem for use by modules jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 37/45] AppArmor: Main Part jjohansen
2007-05-15  9:12   ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 38/45] AppArmor: Module and LSM hooks jjohansen
2007-05-15  9:14   ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-23 16:16     ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-04 10:55       ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-04 11:25         ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-04 11:35           ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-04 11:42             ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-04 13:12               ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-04 14:30                 ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-06 13:09                   ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-10 23:10                     ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-11 14:33                       ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-11 15:55                         ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-11 19:02                           ` Serge E. Hallyn
2007-06-12 13:00                             ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-12 15:34                               ` Serge E. Hallyn
2007-06-12  5:17                                 ` Karl MacMillan
2007-06-12 19:00                                   ` Serge E. Hallyn
2007-06-12 13:13                           ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-12 23:50                         ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-09 12:58                   ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-09 13:44                     ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-12 13:06                       ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 39/45] AppArmor: Profile loading and manipulation, pathname matching jjohansen
2007-05-15  9:20   ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-04 21:03     ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-06 13:26       ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-06 17:32         ` Greg KH
2007-06-09 23:47           ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-08 22:03         ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-09  0:17           ` Greg KH
2007-06-09  1:06             ` david
2007-06-10  8:34               ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-10  9:04                 ` david
2007-06-10 20:04                   ` Casey Schaufler
2007-06-10 20:51                     ` Crispin Cowan
2007-06-11  6:45                       ` david
2007-06-11  8:29                         ` Sean
2007-06-11  9:33                           ` david
2007-06-11 11:34                             ` Sean
2007-06-11 11:00                         ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-10 21:05                   ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-11  6:27                     ` david
2007-06-14 19:16                       ` Jack Stone
2007-06-15  0:18                         ` david
2007-06-15 17:01                           ` Greg KH
2007-06-12 17:03                     ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-09  5:18             ` david
2007-06-09  5:46               ` Sean
2007-06-09  7:13                 ` david
2007-06-09  7:36                   ` Sean
2007-06-09  8:06                     ` david
2007-06-09  8:10                       ` Sean
2007-06-09 15:17                         ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-09 16:36                           ` Sean
2007-06-09 15:33                   ` Joshua Brindle
2007-06-09 16:18               ` Kyle Moffett
2007-06-09 16:46                 ` david
2007-06-09 17:06                   ` Kyle Moffett
2007-06-09 17:32                     ` david
2007-06-09 19:50                       ` Kyle Moffett
2007-06-09 20:43                         ` david
2007-06-10 20:54               ` Crispin Cowan
2007-06-10 21:17                 ` Joshua Brindle
2007-06-09 15:05             ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-10 17:09             ` Crispin Cowan
2007-06-15 16:50               ` Greg KH
2007-06-15 18:01                 ` Casey Schaufler
2007-06-15 18:15                   ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-15 20:43                     ` Casey Schaufler
2007-06-15 21:14                       ` Greg KH
2007-06-15 21:28                         ` Karl MacMillan
2007-06-15 21:44                           ` Greg KH
2007-06-15 22:24                             ` Karl MacMillan
2007-06-18 13:33                               ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-21 15:54                                 ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-15 22:37                         ` Casey Schaufler
2007-06-18 12:47                       ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-15 20:06                 ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-15 21:11                   ` Greg KH
2007-06-15 21:42                     ` James Morris
2007-06-15 23:50                       ` Greg KH
2007-06-16  1:21                         ` James Morris
2007-06-16  2:57                           ` Casey Schaufler
2007-06-16  3:39                             ` James Morris
2007-06-18  1:51                               ` Casey Schaufler
2007-06-18 11:29                                 ` Joshua Brindle
2007-06-16  4:23                           ` Greg KH
2007-06-15 23:30                     ` Crispin Cowan
2007-06-15 23:49                       ` Greg KH
2007-06-16  0:01                         ` david
2007-06-16  0:20                           ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-22  9:59                             ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-16  0:31                           ` Greg KH
2007-06-16  8:09                             ` david
2007-06-16 16:24                               ` Greg KH
2007-06-16  1:41                           ` James Morris
2007-06-16  0:18                         ` Seth Arnold
2007-06-16  0:29                           ` Greg KH
2007-06-16  1:46                           ` James Morris
2007-06-16  2:19                           ` James Morris
2007-06-18 18:48                         ` Crispin Cowan
2007-06-21 16:01                         ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2007-06-21 17:59                           ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-16  0:02                       ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-21 16:08                         ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-21 18:33                           ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-21 19:24                             ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-21 19:42                               ` James Morris
2007-06-21 19:54                                 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-21 20:59                                   ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-21 21:17                                     ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-22  0:16                                       ` Joshua Brindle
2007-06-22  0:19                                         ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-22  0:28                                         ` david
2007-06-22  3:45                                           ` Joshua Brindle
2007-06-22  5:07                                             ` david
2007-06-22 10:49                                             ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-22 11:19                                       ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22 11:34                                         ` Neil Brown
2007-06-22 11:48                                           ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22 11:37                                         ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-22 12:41                                           ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22 12:54                                             ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-22 13:22                                               ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22 14:49                                                 ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22 16:06                                             ` Casey Schaufler
2007-06-22  0:34                                     ` Chris Mason
2007-06-22  1:06                                       ` James Morris
2007-06-22  4:17                                         ` Crispin Cowan
2007-06-22 12:20                                           ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22  7:40                                         ` John Johansen
2007-06-22 12:17                                         ` Chris Mason
2007-06-22 13:48                                           ` James Morris [this message]
2007-06-22 14:02                                             ` Chris Mason
2007-06-22 14:23                                               ` James Morris
2007-06-22 17:30                                                 ` Chris Mason
2007-06-23  0:11                                                   ` Chris Wright
2007-06-24  0:10                                                     ` Toshiharu Harada
2007-06-24  0:40                                                       ` Toshiharu Harada
2007-06-26 21:01                                                     ` Crispin Cowan
2007-06-24 20:43                                                   ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-22 18:12                                                 ` david
2007-06-25 15:14                                               ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-25 21:02                                                 ` david
2007-06-26  8:50                                                 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-22  8:06                                     ` John Johansen
2007-06-22 11:53                                       ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22 12:42                                         ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-22 12:46                                           ` Stephen Smalley
2007-06-22 18:35                                         ` david
2007-06-21 20:07                               ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-21 20:21                                 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-21 23:25                                   ` John Johansen
2007-06-21 19:30                             ` david
2007-06-21 19:35                               ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2007-06-21 19:52                               ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-15 23:33                   ` Seth Arnold
2007-06-15 23:39                     ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-16  0:07                       ` Seth Arnold
2007-06-11 15:16           ` Stephen Smalley
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 40/45] AppArmor: all the rest jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 41/45] Add AppArmor LSM to security/Makefile jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 42/45] AppArmor: add lock subtyping so lockdep does not report false dependencies jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 43/45] Switch to vfs_permission() in do_path_lookup() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 44/45] Switch to vfs_permission() in sys_fchdir() jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` jjohansen
2007-05-14 11:06 ` [AppArmor 45/45] Fix file_permission() jjohansen
2007-05-14 13:50 ` [AppArmor 00/45] AppArmor security module overview John Johansen

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