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From: Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>
To: Wedson Almeida Filho <wedsonaf@gmail.com>
Cc: Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Christian Brauner <brauner@kernel.org>,
	Kent Overstreet <kent.overstreet@gmail.com>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org,
	Wedson Almeida Filho <walmeida@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 09/19] rust: folio: introduce basic support for folios
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 16:17:44 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ZTKaGFN/tp3QjGaD@casper.infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ZTH9+sF+NPyRjyRN@casper.infradead.org>

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 05:11:38AM +0100, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > Sure, it's safe to map a folio in general, but Rust has stricter rules
> > about aliasing and mutability that are part of how memory safety is
> > achieved. In particular, it requires that we never have mutable and
> > immutable pointers to the same memory at once (modulo interior
> > mutability).
> > 
> > So we need to avoid something like:
> > 
> > let a = folio.map(); // `a` is a shared pointer to the contents of the folio.
> > 
> > // While we have a shared (and therefore immutable) pointer, we're
> > changing the contents of the folio.
> > sb.sread(sector_number, sector_count, folio);
> > 
> > This violates Rust rules. `UniqueFolio` helps us address this for our
> > use case; if we try the above with a UniqueFolio, the compiler will
> > error out saying that  `a` has a shared reference to the folio, so we
> > can't call `sread` on it (because sread requires a mutable, and
> > therefore not shareable, reference to the folio).
> 
> This is going to be quite the impedance mismatch.  Still, I imagine
> you're used to dealing with those by now and have a toolbox of ideas.
> 
> We don't have that rule for the pagecache as it is.  We do have rules that
> prevent data corruption!  For example, if the folio is !uptodate then you
> must have the lock to write to the folio in order to bring it uptodate
> (so we have a single writer rule in that regard).  But once the folio is
> uptodate, all bets are off in terms of who can be writing to it / reading
> it at the same time.  And that's going to have to continue to be true;
> multiple processes can have the same page mmaped writable and write to
> it at the same time.  There's no possible synchronisation between them.
> 
> But I think your concern is really more limited.  You're concerned
> with filesystem metadata obeying Rust's rules.  And for a read-write
> filesystem, you're going to have to have ... something ... which gets a
> folio from the page cache, and establishes that this is the only thread
> which can modify that folio (maybe it's an interior node of a Btree,
> maybe it's a free space bitmap, ...).  We could probably use the folio
> lock bit for that purpose,  For the read-only filesystems, you only need
> be concerned about freshly-allocated folios, but you need something more
> when it comes to doing an ext2 clone.
> 
> There's general concern about the overuse of the folio lock bit, but
> this is a reasonable use -- preventing two threads from modifying the
> same folio at the same time.

Sorry, I didn't quite finish this thought; that'll teach me to write
complicated emails last thing at night.

The page cache has no single-writer vs multiple-reader exclusion on folios
found in the page cache.  We expect filesystems to implement whatever
exclusion they need at a higher level.  For example, ext2 has no higher
level lock on its block allocator.  Once the buffer is uptodate (ie has
been read from storage), it uses atomic bit operations in order to track
which blocks are freed.  It does use a spinlock to control access to
"how many blocks are currently free".

I'm not suggesting ext2 is an optimal strategy.  I know XFS and btrfs
use rwsems, although I'm not familiar enough with either to describe
exactly how it works.

  reply	other threads:[~2023-10-20 15:17 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 125+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-10-18 12:24 [RFC PATCH 00/19] Rust abstractions for VFS Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 01/19] rust: fs: add registration/unregistration of file systems Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 15:38   ` Benno Lossin
2024-01-10 18:32     ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2024-01-25  9:15       ` Benno Lossin
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 02/19] rust: fs: introduce the `module_fs` macro Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 03/19] samples: rust: add initial ro file system sample Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-28 16:18   ` Alice Ryhl
2024-01-10 18:25     ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 04/19] rust: fs: introduce `FileSystem::super_params` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 16:34   ` Benno Lossin
2023-10-28 16:39     ` Alice Ryhl
2023-10-30  8:21       ` Benno Lossin
2023-10-30 21:36         ` Alice Ryhl
2023-10-20 15:04   ` Ariel Miculas (amiculas)
2024-01-03 12:25   ` Andreas Hindborg (Samsung)
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 05/19] rust: fs: introduce `INode<T>` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-28 18:00   ` Alice Ryhl
2024-01-03 12:45     ` Andreas Hindborg (Samsung)
2024-01-03 12:54   ` Andreas Hindborg (Samsung)
2024-01-04  5:20     ` Darrick J. Wong
2024-01-04  9:57       ` Andreas Hindborg (Samsung)
2024-01-10  9:45     ` Benno Lossin
2024-01-04  5:14   ` Darrick J. Wong
2024-01-24 18:17     ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 06/19] rust: fs: introduce `FileSystem::init_root` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-19 14:30   ` Benno Lossin
2023-10-20  0:52     ` Boqun Feng
2023-10-21 13:48       ` Benno Lossin
2023-10-21 15:57         ` Boqun Feng
2023-10-21 17:01           ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-10-21 19:33             ` Boqun Feng
2023-10-23  5:29               ` Dave Chinner
2023-10-23 12:55                 ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-30  2:29                   ` Dave Chinner
2023-10-31 20:49                     ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-11-08  4:54                       ` Dave Chinner
2023-11-08  6:15                         ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-20  0:30   ` Boqun Feng
2023-10-23 12:36     ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2024-01-03 13:29   ` Andreas Hindborg (Samsung)
2024-01-24  4:07     ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 07/19] rust: fs: introduce `FileSystem::read_dir` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-21  8:33   ` Benno Lossin
2024-01-03 14:09   ` Andreas Hindborg (Samsung)
2024-01-21 21:00   ` Askar Safin
2024-01-21 21:51     ` Dave Chinner
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 08/19] rust: fs: introduce `FileSystem::lookup` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 09/19] rust: folio: introduce basic support for folios Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 17:17   ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-10-18 18:32     ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 19:21       ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-10-19 13:25         ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-20  4:11           ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-10-20 15:17             ` Matthew Wilcox [this message]
2023-10-23 12:32               ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-23 10:48             ` Andreas Hindborg (Samsung)
2023-10-23 14:28               ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-10-24 15:04                 ` Ariel Miculas (amiculas)
2023-10-23 12:29             ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-21  9:21   ` Benno Lossin
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 10/19] rust: fs: introduce `FileSystem::read_folio` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-11-07 22:18   ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-11-07 22:22     ` Al Viro
2023-11-08  0:35       ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-11-08  0:56         ` Al Viro
2023-11-08  2:39           ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 11/19] rust: fs: introduce `FileSystem::read_xattr` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 13:06   ` Ariel Miculas (amiculas)
2023-10-19 13:35     ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 12/19] rust: fs: introduce `FileSystem::statfs` Wedson Almeida Filho
2024-01-03 14:13   ` Andreas Hindborg (Samsung)
2024-01-04  5:33   ` Darrick J. Wong
2024-01-24  4:24     ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 13/19] rust: fs: introduce more inode types Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 14/19] rust: fs: add per-superblock data Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-25 15:51   ` Ariel Miculas (amiculas)
2023-10-26 13:46   ` Ariel Miculas (amiculas)
2024-01-03 14:16   ` Andreas Hindborg (Samsung)
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 15/19] rust: fs: add basic support for fs buffer heads Wedson Almeida Filho
2024-01-03 14:17   ` Andreas Hindborg (Samsung)
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 16/19] rust: fs: allow file systems backed by a block device Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-21 13:39   ` Benno Lossin
2024-01-24  4:14     ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2024-01-03 14:38   ` Andreas Hindborg (Samsung)
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 17/19] rust: fs: allow per-inode data Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-21 13:57   ` Benno Lossin
2024-01-03 14:39   ` Andreas Hindborg (Samsung)
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 18/19] rust: fs: export file type from mode constants Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 12:25 ` [RFC PATCH 19/19] tarfs: introduce tar fs Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 16:57   ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-10-18 17:05     ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-18 17:20       ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-10-18 18:07         ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2024-01-24  5:05   ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-01-24  5:23     ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-01-24 18:26       ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2024-01-24 21:05         ` Dave Chinner
2024-01-24 21:28           ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-01-24  5:34     ` Gao Xiang
2023-10-18 13:40 ` [RFC PATCH 00/19] Rust abstractions for VFS Ariel Miculas (amiculas)
2023-10-18 17:12   ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2023-10-29 20:31 ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-10-31 20:14   ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2024-01-03 18:02     ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-01-03 19:04       ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2024-01-03 19:53         ` Al Viro
2024-01-03 20:38           ` Kent Overstreet
2024-01-04  1:49         ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-01-09 18:25           ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2024-01-09 19:30             ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-01-03 19:14       ` Kent Overstreet
2024-01-03 20:41         ` Al Viro
2024-01-09 19:13           ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2024-01-09 19:25             ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-01-09 19:32               ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2024-01-10  7:49                 ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2024-01-10  7:57                   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2024-01-10 12:56                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-01-09 22:19               ` Dave Chinner
2024-01-10 19:19                 ` Kent Overstreet
2024-01-24 13:08                   ` FUJITA Tomonori
2024-01-24 19:49                     ` Kent Overstreet
2024-01-05  0:04       ` David Howells
2024-01-05 15:54         ` Jarkko Sakkinen

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