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[96.60.249.169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 956f58d0204a3-642f7048d7esm375063d50.4.2025.11.19.17.10.23 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 19 Nov 2025 17:10:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2025 20:10:19 -0500 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCHSET v6 4/8] fuse: allow servers to use iomap for better file IO performance To: Gao Xiang , "Darrick J. Wong" Cc: bernd@bsbernd.com, joannelkoong@gmail.com, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, miklos@szeredi.hu, neal@gompa.dev, linux-bcachefs@vger.kernel.org, linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org, zfs-devel@list.zfsonlinux.org References: <176169810144.1424854.11439355400009006946.stgit@frogsfrogsfrogs> <20251119180449.GS196358@frogsfrogsfrogs> Content-Language: en-US From: Demi Marie Obenour Autocrypt: addr=demiobenour@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFp+A0oBEADffj6anl9/BHhUSxGTICeVl2tob7hPDdhHNgPR4C8xlYt5q49yB+l2nipd aq+4Gk6FZfqC825TKl7eRpUjMriwle4r3R0ydSIGcy4M6eb0IcxmuPYfbWpr/si88QKgyGSV Z7GeNW1UnzTdhYHuFlk8dBSmB1fzhEYEk0RcJqg4AKoq6/3/UorR+FaSuVwT7rqzGrTlscnT DlPWgRzrQ3jssesI7sZLm82E3pJSgaUoCdCOlL7MMPCJwI8JpPlBedRpe9tfVyfu3euTPLPx wcV3L/cfWPGSL4PofBtB8NUU6QwYiQ9Hzx4xOyn67zW73/G0Q2vPPRst8LBDqlxLjbtx/WLR 6h3nBc3eyuZ+q62HS1pJ5EvUT1vjyJ1ySrqtUXWQ4XlZyoEFUfpJxJoN0A9HCxmHGVckzTRl 5FMWo8TCniHynNXsBtDQbabt7aNEOaAJdE7to0AH3T/Bvwzcp0ZJtBk0EM6YeMLtotUut7h2 Bkg1b//r6bTBswMBXVJ5H44Qf0+eKeUg7whSC9qpYOzzrm7+0r9F5u3qF8ZTx55TJc2g656C 9a1P1MYVysLvkLvS4H+crmxA/i08Tc1h+x9RRvqba4lSzZ6/Tmt60DPM5Sc4R0nSm9BBff0N m0bSNRS8InXdO1Aq3362QKX2NOwcL5YaStwODNyZUqF7izjK4QARAQABzTxEZW1pIE1hcmll IE9iZW5vdXIgKGxvdmVyIG9mIGNvZGluZykgPGRlbWlvYmVub3VyQGdtYWlsLmNvbT7CwXgE EwECACIFAlp+A0oCGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJELKItV//nCLBhr8Q AK/xrb4wyi71xII2hkFBpT59ObLN+32FQT7R3lbZRjVFjc6yMUjOb1H/hJVxx+yo5gsSj5LS 9AwggioUSrcUKldfA/PKKai2mzTlUDxTcF3vKx6iMXKA6AqwAw4B57ZEJoMM6egm57TV19kz PMc879NV2nc6+elaKl+/kbVeD3qvBuEwsTe2Do3HAAdrfUG/j9erwIk6gha/Hp9yZlCnPTX+ VK+xifQqt8RtMqS5R/S8z0msJMI/ajNU03kFjOpqrYziv6OZLJ5cuKb3bZU5aoaRQRDzkFIR 6aqtFLTohTo20QywXwRa39uFaOT/0YMpNyel0kdOszFOykTEGI2u+kja35g9TkH90kkBTG+a EWttIht0Hy6YFmwjcAxisSakBuHnHuMSOiyRQLu43ej2+mDWgItLZ48Mu0C3IG1seeQDjEYP tqvyZ6bGkf2Vj+L6wLoLLIhRZxQOedqArIk/Sb2SzQYuxN44IDRt+3ZcDqsPppoKcxSyd1Ny 2tpvjYJXlfKmOYLhTWs8nwlAlSHX/c/jz/ywwf7eSvGknToo1Y0VpRtoxMaKW1nvH0OeCSVJ itfRP7YbiRVc2aNqWPCSgtqHAuVraBRbAFLKh9d2rKFB3BmynTUpc1BQLJP8+D5oNyb8Ts4x Xd3iV/uD8JLGJfYZIR7oGWFLP4uZ3tkneDfYzsFNBFp+A0oBEAC9ynZI9LU+uJkMeEJeJyQ/ 8VFkCJQPQZEsIGzOTlPnwvVna0AS86n2Z+rK7R/usYs5iJCZ55/JISWd8xD57ue0eB47bcJv VqGlObI2DEG8TwaW0O0duRhDgzMEL4t1KdRAepIESBEA/iPpI4gfUbVEIEQuqdqQyO4GAe+M kD0Hy5JH/0qgFmbaSegNTdQg5iqYjRZ3ttiswalql1/iSyv1WYeC1OAs+2BLOAT2NEggSiVO txEfgewsQtCWi8H1SoirakIfo45Hz0tk/Ad9ZWh2PvOGt97Ka85o4TLJxgJJqGEnqcFUZnJJ riwoaRIS8N2C8/nEM53jb1sH0gYddMU3QxY7dYNLIUrRKQeNkF30dK7V6JRH7pleRlf+wQcN fRAIUrNlatj9TxwivQrKnC9aIFFHEy/0mAgtrQShcMRmMgVlRoOA5B8RTulRLCmkafvwuhs6 dCxN0GNAORIVVFxjx9Vn7OqYPgwiofZ6SbEl0hgPyWBQvE85klFLZLoj7p+joDY1XNQztmfA rnJ9x+YV4igjWImINAZSlmEcYtd+xy3Li/8oeYDAqrsnrOjb+WvGhCykJk4urBog2LNtcyCj kTs7F+WeXGUo0NDhbd3Z6AyFfqeF7uJ3D5hlpX2nI9no/ugPrrTVoVZAgrrnNz0iZG2DVx46 x913pVKHl5mlYQARAQABwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJafgNKAhsMAAoJELKItV//nCLBwNIP/AiIHE8b oIqReFQyaMzxq6lE4YZCZNj65B/nkDOvodSiwfwjjVVE2V3iEzxMHbgyTCGA67+Bo/d5aQGj gn0TPtsGzelyQHipaUzEyrsceUGWYoKXYyVWKEfyh0cDfnd9diAm3VeNqchtcMpoehETH8fr RHnJdBcjf112PzQSdKC6kqU0Q196c4Vp5HDOQfNiDnTf7gZSj0BraHOByy9LEDCLhQiCmr+2 E0rW4tBtDAn2HkT9uf32ZGqJCn1O+2uVfFhGu6vPE5qkqrbSE8TG+03H8ecU2q50zgHWPdHM OBvy3EhzfAh2VmOSTcRK+tSUe/u3wdLRDPwv/DTzGI36Kgky9MsDC5gpIwNbOJP2G/q1wT1o Gkw4IXfWv2ufWiXqJ+k7HEi2N1sree7Dy9KBCqb+ca1vFhYPDJfhP75I/VnzHVssZ/rYZ9+5 1yDoUABoNdJNSGUYl+Yh9Pw9pE3Kt4EFzUlFZWbE4xKL/NPno+z4J9aWemLLszcYz/u3XnbO vUSQHSrmfOzX3cV4yfmjM5lewgSstoxGyTx2M8enslgdXhPthZlDnTnOT+C+OTsh8+m5tos8 HQjaPM01MKBiAqdPgksm1wu2DrrwUi6ChRVTUBcj6+/9IJ81H2P2gJk3Ls3AVIxIffLoY34E +MYSfkEjBz0E8CLOcAw7JIwAaeBT In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------u4y7Z4Hxdq0nvazIG660CKHU" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------u4y7Z4Hxdq0nvazIG660CKHU Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4bo0nskHQ08B9HKd7s0YguKR"; protected-headers="v1" From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Gao Xiang , "Darrick J. Wong" Cc: bernd@bsbernd.com, joannelkoong@gmail.com, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, miklos@szeredi.hu, neal@gompa.dev, linux-bcachefs@vger.kernel.org, linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org, zfs-devel@list.zfsonlinux.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCHSET v6 4/8] fuse: allow servers to use iomap for better file IO performance References: <176169810144.1424854.11439355400009006946.stgit@frogsfrogsfrogs> <20251119180449.GS196358@frogsfrogsfrogs> In-Reply-To: --------------4bo0nskHQ08B9HKd7s0YguKR Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------ryUl7YI5BrtmXg85hUqSfXT0" --------------ryUl7YI5BrtmXg85hUqSfXT0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 11/19/25 16:00, Gao Xiang wrote: >=20 >=20 > On 2025/11/20 02:04, Darrick J. Wong wrote: >> On Wed, Nov 19, 2025 at 04:19:36AM -0500, Demi Marie Obenour wrote: >>>> By keeping the I/O path mostly within the kernel, we can dramaticall= y >>>> increase the speed of disk-based filesystems. >>> >>> ZFS, BTRFS, and bcachefs all support compression, checksumming, >>> and RAID. ZFS and bcachefs also support encryption, and f2fs and >>> ext4 support fscrypt. >>> >>> Will this patchset be able to improve FUSE implementations of these >>> filesystems? I'd rather not be in the situation where one can have >>> a FUSE filesystem that is fast, but only if it doesn't support modern= >>> data integrity or security features. >> >> Not on its own, no. >> >>> I'm not a filesystem developer, but here are some ideas (that you >>> can take or leave): >>> >>> 1. Keep the compression, checksumming, and/or encryption in-kernel, >>> and have userspace tell the kernel what algorithm and/or encrypti= on >>> key to use. These algorithms are generally well-known and secure= >>> against malicious input. It might be necessary to make an extra >>> data copy, but ideally that copy could just stay within the >>> CPU caches. >> >> I think this is easily doable for fscrypt and compression since (IIRC)= >> the kernel filesystems already know how to transform data for I/O, and= >> nowadays iomap allows hooking of bios before submission and/or after >> endio. Obviously you'd have to store encryption keys in the kernel >> somewhere. >=20 > I think it depends, since (this way) it tries to reuse some of the > existing kernel filesystem implementations (and assuming the code is > safe), so at least it still needs to load a dedicated kernel module > for such usage at least. My hope is that these modules could be generic library code. Compression, checksumming, and encryption algorithms aren't specific to any particular filesystem, and the kernel might well be using them already for other purposes. Of course, it's still the host admin's job to make sure the relevant modules are loaded, unless they are autoloaded. > I think it's not an issue for userspace ext4 of course (because ext4 > and fscrypt is almost builtin for all kernels), but for out-of-tree > fses even pure userspace fses, I'm not sure it's doable to load the > module in a container context. >=20 > Maybe eBPF is useful for this area, but it's still not quite > flexible compared to native kernel filesystems. >=20 > Thanks, > Gao Xiang Thank you for the feedback! --=20 Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers) --------------ryUl7YI5BrtmXg85hUqSfXT0 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0xB288B55FFF9C22C1.asc" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0xB288B55FFF9C22C1.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFp+A0oBEADffj6anl9/BHhUSxGTICeVl2tob7hPDdhHNgPR4C8xlYt5q49y 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