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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: 0Uim2+rdQXl1qDs3UIT+LI9Rw+HSeyL0+II6/KUbdbCW2VGbfHoLaBXnQZedrCrAhuq6RZUr/ZYz7ngdPayH2w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH3PR10MB7761 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.293,Aquarius:18.0.1099,Hydra:6.0.680,FMLib:17.12.68.34 definitions=2025-04-23_05,2025-04-22_01,2024-11-22_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2504070000 definitions=main-2504230047 X-Proofpoint-GUID: 3gIK41OqePHrfeIhEohx3Nz21pCTsRb6 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 3gIK41OqePHrfeIhEohx3Nz21pCTsRb6 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details-Enc: AW1haW4tMjUwNDIzMDA0NyBTYWx0ZWRfX1LfdQ1+tPTiP EEnE1FoK62MjtVd/gG/pKcXXczxUjKOzLQSJcDHI48fs8OMWoDLMrzarwFw8AdC38Py2gYWHZ+J RTF7CT230qJxo5q3Fc3rSG1T9lSbjg7+23eleSSTnGLf2eKZW3k8O/GGD6lYmfLUVgQG5sAUUcI hlSiwdxIvibIxq18pRM7Y4SS2WFAkt5OV3IvHvQBaqOUbmw+jxLpPHyl5esZ447QaCAX4hkuL0w IY7TUElJ7u0Ia7map/fyvppcEfGHI6H4/KJHo54Hsh83bkgxmIBBT2ja2Gln/ASgAk3gAM3pyrN jfMpN2i55cnVh9p35DYTY55ziGTpTRBPuqpFejEmy8s01uiq9C9fuxIpL0xkpBtLy5TwBvaSpCy tMpt8x51 On 23/04/2025 06:18, Luis Chamberlain wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2025 at 07:08:32AM +0100, John Garry wrote: >> On 21/04/2025 22:18, Luis Chamberlain wrote: >>>> /* >>>> + * The retry mechanism is based on the ->iomap_begin method returning >>>> + * -ENOPROTOOPT, which would be when the REQ_ATOMIC-based write is not >>>> + * possible. The REQ_ATOMIC-based method typically not be possible if >>>> + * the write spans multiple extents or the disk blocks are misaligned. >>>> + */ >>>> + if (ret == -ENOPROTOOPT && dops == &xfs_direct_write_iomap_ops) { >>> Based on feedback from LSFMM, due to the performance variaibility this >>> can introduce, it sounded like some folks would like to opt-in to not >>> have a software fallback and just require an error out. >>>> Could an option be added to not allow the software fallback? >> >> I still don't see the use in this. > > Its not the use, its the concern for underdeterminism in performance. Sure, we don't offer RT performance guarantees, but what does? > >> So consider userspace wants to write something atomically and we fail as a >> HW-based atomic write is not possible. > > Sounds like a terrible predicant for those that want hw atomics and > reliability for it. Well from our MySQL testing performance is good. > >> What is userspace going to do next? > > It would seem that would depend on their analysis on the number of > software fallbacks where a software atomic based solution is used and > the impact on performance. sorry, but I don't understand this > >> I heard something like "if HW-based atomics are not possible, then something >> has not been configured properly for the FS" - that something would be >> extent granularity and alignment, but we don't have a method to ensure this. >> That is the whole point of having a FS fallback. > > We do with LBS. Sure, but not everyone wants LBS > Its perfectly deterministic to be aligned with a sector > size matching the block size, even for metadata writes. > >>> If so, then I think the next patch would also need updating. >>> >>> Or are you suggesting that without the software fallback atomic writes >>> greater than fs block size are not possible? >> >> Yes, as XFS has no method to guarantee extent granularity and alignment. > > Ah, I think the documentation for this featuer should make this clear, > it was not clear up to this point in patch review. > ok, that can be added