From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (lamorak.hansenpartnership.com [198.37.111.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E358B2EACE0 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2025 07:59:34 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.37.111.173 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1755849576; cv=none; b=Fj673bgdySYcD0d9ZxRDV0uxE1kjO+5f+6cwp9PyRSfql+pYWZ8P5QT4Ysr5+qnHbU1ngRxbYRhQbGgzSXDokx8CIDdNDJ8u7IsICEUEYDW5tddEvNfokrATK0LyjGBsLhL2JlHTzh8xemc5G10Bobf1aamJ5BP1jOaPJqqsbxk= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1755849576; c=relaxed/simple; bh=zSPdyFXEI7Zv/E3DWI1B20aSH10cIhcbegpdTgKprvI=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; 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 8mT2Eh9SkH+YVOmaKsajgZgrBxA7fWmGoxXswEVxJIFj3vW7yNc0C5HaUdYa5iGOMs4kg2ht4s7yy7NRQuh7BifWjo6BQ6k4S1H+6axZucxhSV1L6zN9d+lr3Xo/vy1unzA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.50.3 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 On Thu, 2025-08-21 at 15:15 -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote: > On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 18:44:07 +0100 > James Bottomley wrote: >=20 > > > I share my scripts and explain how to do a pull request. How to > > > use linux-next and what to and more importantly, what not to send > > > during during the -rc releases.=C2=A0=20 > >=20 > > I'm not sure that covers it.=C2=A0 As I read the situation it was more > > about how you work with others when there are things in the kernel > > you'd like to introduce or change to support your feature.=C2=A0 Hence > > it's really about working with rather than against the community. >=20 > What I'm suggesting is to have a program to help newcomers that are > taking on a maintainer role. This program can not only teach what > needs to be done to be a maintainer, but also vet the people that are > coming into our ecosystem. If there's a lot of push back from the > individual on how to interact with the community, then that > individual can be denied becoming a maintainer. As I said, I think this is a good idea, it just wouldn't have solved the problems we saw. The initial pull request has a huge thread which, when summarized, pretty much predicted the issues that were seen.=20 Although he went into MAINTAINERS with an R tag, Brian Foster did attempt to act as a buffer, something which I don't think we've thanked Brian for enough, but something which ultimately failed probably due to lack of empowerment. > > > I'm sure others have helped developers become maintainers as > > > well. Perhaps we should get together and come up with a formal > > > way to become a maintainer? Because honestly, it's currently done > > > by trial and error. I think that should change.=C2=A0=20 > >=20 > > That wouldn't hurt, but that problem that I see is that some fairly > > drastic action has been taken on what can be characterised as a > > whim, so I think we need some formality around how and when this > > happens. >=20 > If it was policy for Kent to work with a mentor before he could send > patches directly to Linus, would this have uncovered the issues > before they became as large as they had become? Well, no, the thread I pointed to as part of this proposal pretty much predicted what actually happened. So the problems were known ahead of time and didn't need to be discovered, we just needed a better mitigation mechanism (which a supervision program could form part of). Regards, James