Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Douglas Cole]

Well as most recent postings seem to indicate some distro's are less
friendly than others for updating and changing kernels and other
things.
I too am using SuSE (version 10) for my desktop OS, but still have a
separate pc running SuSE 8.2 for packet, since it is the one that
works for me, and as has been posted on here many times, 2.6 kernel
packet issues have been many.

So my question is, which distro' would one reccomend to someone who is
used to using a distro' that does not require recompiling the kernel
every time I turn around?

I was thinking maybe Kubuntu, or one of the Debian based distro's just
for the sake of the ease with which APT makes updating/upgrading, but
since I have not spent enough time with Debian based distro's I am not
sure that is going to fit my needs.
Also I noticed that Fedora has a similar package manager that is
supposed to work well called YUM...

But what 2.6 kernel-based distro' really shines for use Amateur radio
opp's at the moment ?

Thanks in advance for any input you can give.


Doug
N7BFS

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[IT3 Stuart Blake Tener]

Quoting Douglas Cole <doug.n7bfs@gmail.com>:

> Well as most recent postings seem to indicate some distro's are less
> friendly than others for updating and changing kernels and other
> things.
> I too am using SuSE (version 10) for my desktop OS, but still have a
> separate pc running SuSE 8.2 for packet, since it is the one that
> works for me, and as has been posted on here many times, 2.6 kernel
> packet issues have been many.

My desktop OS is MacOS, and when the new Mac/Intel machines come out, I will
purchase one and run Linux as a secondary OS, since AX.25 is not supported by
MacOS, and cannot be added either.

>
> So my question is, which distro' would one reccomend to someone who is
> used to using a distro' that does not require recompiling the kernel
> every time I turn around?

I am considering the "Amateurization" of ipCop from www.ipcop.org, as it already
contains menuized management screens for network management. It is already small
in terms of kernel size, and can be loaded onto something like an openbrick, not
unlike what I am considering to purchase from www.hacom.net (only the VIA unit).


>
> I was thinking maybe Kubuntu, or one of the Debian based distro's just
> for the sake of the ease with which APT makes updating/upgrading, but
> since I have not spent enough time with Debian based distro's I am not
> sure that is going to fit my needs.
> Also I noticed that Fedora has a similar package manager that is
> supposed to work well called YUM...

Perhaps building a Unbuntu live version of Linux which was inclusive of all the
HAM addons might be interesting to do, ay?

>
> But what 2.6 kernel-based distro' really shines for use Amateur radio
> opp's at the moment ?
>
> Thanks in advance for any input you can give.
>
>
> Doug
> N7BFS
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-hams" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>

-- 
IT3 Stuart Blake Tener
Beverly Hills, CA
(310) 358-0202
teners@bh90210.net

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Nate Bargmann]

* Douglas Cole <doug.n7bfs@gmail.com> [2006 Jan 04 15:21 -0600]:

> So my question is, which distro' would one reccomend to someone who is
> used to using a distro' that does not require recompiling the kernel
> every time I turn around?

Debian seems to have a very modular kernel with most, if not all, of
the ham radio support enabled.  A number of hams are active in Debian
which helps the ham radio support, IMO.

> I was thinking maybe Kubuntu, or one of the Debian based distro's just
> for the sake of the ease with which APT makes updating/upgrading, but
> since I have not spent enough time with Debian based distro's I am not
> sure that is going to fit my needs.

Unless the Kubuntu team builds a radically different kernel, it's ham
radio support should be about equal.

> But what 2.6 kernel-based distro' really shines for use Amateur radio
> opp's at the moment ?

Check out Harv's Ham Shack.  It seems to be a ham radio oriented
distribution.

73, de Nate >>

-- 
 Wireless | Amateur Radio Station N0NB          |  Successfully Microsoft
  Amateur radio exams; ham radio; Linux info @  | free since January 1998.
             http://www.qsl.net/n0nb/           |  "Debian, the choice of
             My Kawasaki KZ-650 SR @            |     a GNU generation!"
        http://www.networksplus.net/n0nb/       |   http://www.debian.org

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Jeremy Utley]

On 1/4/06, Nate Bargmann <n0nb@networksplus.net> wrote:

> > But what 2.6 kernel-based distro' really shines for use Amateur radio
> > opp's at the moment ?
>
> Check out Harv's Ham Shack.  It seems to be a ham radio oriented
> distribution.

Just my .02 (before tax), but my favorite Linux for Ham Radio stuff
has always been Slackware.  The kernels may not have the ax.25 support
built in (it's been a while since I actually installed it), but Slack
is one of the easiest distro's around to recompile the kernel for,
IMHO.  Try a custom-compiled kernel on most modern distros, and you're
going to end up with all kinds of odd errors as it tries to load
modules that may no longer be there - but I've never run into this
with Slack.

Jeremy, NW7JU

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Alex Flinsch]

On Jan 4, 2006, at 4:26 PM, IT3 Stuart Blake Tener wrote:
>
> My desktop OS is MacOS, and when the new Mac/Intel machines come  
> out, I will

Same here, but I run a headless Mandrake/Mandriva box for all of my  
ham apps, and just export the display to OS X



--
Alex / AB2RC
avflinsch@att.net

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 12:55:38PM -0800, Douglas Cole wrote:
> Well as most recent postings seem to indicate some distro's are less
> friendly than others for updating and changing kernels and other
> things.
> I too am using SuSE (version 10) for my desktop OS, but still have a
> separate pc running SuSE 8.2 for packet, since it is the one that
> works for me, and as has been posted on here many times, 2.6 kernel
> packet issues have been many.
> 
> So my question is, which distro' would one reccomend to someone who is
> used to using a distro' that does not require recompiling the kernel
> every time I turn around?
> 
> I was thinking maybe Kubuntu, or one of the Debian based distro's just
> for the sake of the ease with which APT makes updating/upgrading, but
> since I have not spent enough time with Debian based distro's I am not
> sure that is going to fit my needs.

How about Debian itself? 

Ham radio has been in Debian since the early days. Two past project
leaders have been hams (Bruce Perens K6BP and Bdale Garbee KB0G).

Our standard kernels include all the AX.25 drivers. We have a mailing
list debian-hams for discussion. Here's a list of radio packages
included in the 3.1 (sarge) release:

http://packages.debian.org/stable/hamradio/


Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <hamish@debian.org> <hamish@cloud.net.au>

RE: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Mike McCarthy, W1NR]

I still see SuSE as very ham friendly.  The problem with the AX25 drivers is
the 2.6.13 kernel across ALL distros.  SuSE 10.0 just happens to have the
broken one and unless the maintainer gets the fixes into the global 2.6.13
update, all distros using it will remain broken.  10.1 should "hopefully"
fix the problem with the 2.6.15 kernel.

Since 9.3, SuSE has started removing some software from the CD's.  The ham
software was one of the packages they decided to take out.  That does not
mean they are not available.  Just point an installation source at any of
the mirrors that have the "projects/ham" directory and you get all of the
ham radio packages.  If you want java, extra perl libraries and much of what
used to fit on a single DVD but doesn't any more, the ftp mirrors have the
packages available and can be installed and maintained through YaST by
adding installation sources.  AX25 is still compiled into the kernel as a
module, so kernel recompilation is not needed.

Mike, W1NR

-----Original Message-----
From: linux-hams-owner@vger.kernel.org
[mailto:linux-hams-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Cole
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 3:56 PM
To: linux-hams@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

Well as most recent postings seem to indicate some distro's are less
friendly than others for updating and changing kernels and other things.
I too am using SuSE (version 10) for my desktop OS, but still have a
separate pc running SuSE 8.2 for packet, since it is the one that works for
me, and as has been posted on here many times, 2.6 kernel packet issues have
been many.

So my question is, which distro' would one reccomend to someone who is used
to using a distro' that does not require recompiling the kernel every time I
turn around?

I was thinking maybe Kubuntu, or one of the Debian based distro's just for
the sake of the ease with which APT makes updating/upgrading, but since I
have not spent enough time with Debian based distro's I am not sure that is
going to fit my needs.
Also I noticed that Fedora has a similar package manager that is supposed to
work well called YUM...

But what 2.6 kernel-based distro' really shines for use Amateur radio opp's
at the moment ?

Thanks in advance for any input you can give.


Doug
N7BFS
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-hams" in the
body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at
http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Douglas Cole]

On 1/4/06, Hamish Moffatt <hamish@cloud.net.au> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 12:55:38PM -0800, Douglas Cole wrote:
> > Well as most recent postings seem to indicate some distro's are less
> > friendly than others for updating and changing kernels and other
> > things.
> > I too am using SuSE (version 10) for my desktop OS, but still have a
> > separate pc running SuSE 8.2 for packet, since it is the one that
> > works for me, and as has been posted on here many times, 2.6 kernel
> > packet issues have been many.
> >
> > So my question is, which distro' would one reccomend to someone who is
> > used to using a distro' that does not require recompiling the kernel
> > every time I turn around?
> >
> > I was thinking maybe Kubuntu, or one of the Debian based distro's just
> > for the sake of the ease with which APT makes updating/upgrading, but
> > since I have not spent enough time with Debian based distro's I am not
> > sure that is going to fit my needs.
>
> How about Debian itself?
>
> Ham radio has been in Debian since the early days. Two past project
> leaders have been hams (Bruce Perens K6BP and Bdale Garbee KB0G).
>
> Our standard kernels include all the AX.25 drivers. We have a mailing
> list debian-hams for discussion. Here's a list of radio packages
> included in the 3.1 (sarge) release:
>
> http://packages.debian.org/stable/hamradio/
>
>
> Hamish

Thanks Hamish for all you have done for Linux-Ham related  stuff and
for all your opinions folks, I guess most of you have not used the
"easy" distro's like SuSE, Redhat/Fedora and Mandrake recently, that
make setting up the "tough" stuff like X, networking (wireless and
wired) and sound a breeze, for all you folks who are programmers or
have built your own distro' from scratch or have been compiling your
own kernels since ver 1.1 well all I can say is I look up to you in
awe, but unfortunately even though I have been using Linux since my
first Yggdrsil six disc set (1996 I guess) I never did get the hang of
doing all the stuff that most of you folks seem to feel is so easy. So
for me recompiling the kernel is out of the question, spending hours
working out modules issues is out of the question, beating my head
against the wall trying to get Slackware to do anything is out of the
question, making Debian support my "new" hardware is a joke (for me
anyway), so that is why I have been sticking with SuSE, because up
until recently it has been excellent for me (a Linux adept) as far as
getting almost all the things I need going using YAST. But of course
it has its limitations, I am aware of the drawbacks of using an rpm
based distro', but for as much as I love APT I just can't deal with
the lack of a YAST-like utility for dummies like me who don't have the
patience to make it work editing 'rc' files... Not to say I don't edit
'rc files using VIM, I do, its just that I have my limits of ability
and understanding...

And in case it seems that way, I am not trying to complain here, just
trying to make that demarcation between you folks who have no problems
with Slack' or Deb' or LFS (Linux from Scratch) and those of us Hams
out here who are having fun with Linux, but are just not smart or
patient enough to do it the "hard" way, so we need that little bit of
help from the "gods" who do know, cuz  I want to keep my Amateur radio
-and- my Linux together :)

As far as I can tell the reason I mentioned Kubuntu, is that it is
Deb' based, but seems a little more 'pointy-clickee' and isn't such a
challenge to get X running and other things, and also seems to have
better hardware support than regular Deb'.  Anyway, I may give Deb'
another try, I may even venture back and try Slack', but my big
challenge now is time and a brain that ain't working like it did 20
years ago...
I tried Harv's hamshack but it did not like my hardware and would not
even boot, I may have to spend more time on it, but I could do the
same with Knoppix I suppose...

Anywho, thanks for the input folks, I may have to spend more time on
this than I wanted, but hey its all good  ^_^

And thanks again to all of you that share your hard work with the rest
of us "mortals"

Doug
N7BFS

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Douglas Cole]

On 1/4/06, Mike McCarthy, W1NR <lists@w1nr.net> wrote:
> I still see SuSE as very ham friendly.  The problem with the AX25 drivers is
> the 2.6.13 kernel across ALL distros.  SuSE 10.0 just happens to have the
> broken one and unless the maintainer gets the fixes into the global 2.6.13
> update, all distros using it will remain broken.  10.1 should "hopefully"
> fix the problem with the 2.6.15 kernel.
I hate being on this upgrade "treadmill" but will have to give 10.1 a
try when it comes out sounds hopeful.

>
> Since 9.3, SuSE has started removing some software from the CD's.  The ham
> software was one of the packages they decided to take out.  That does not
> mean they are not available.  Just point an installation source at any of
> the mirrors that have the "projects/ham" directory and you get all of the
> ham radio packages.  If you want java, extra perl libraries and much of what
> used to fit on a single DVD but doesn't any more, the ftp mirrors have the
> packages available and can be installed and maintained through YaST by
> adding installation sources.  AX25 is still compiled into the kernel as a
> module, so kernel recompilation is not needed.

Yup, up until 9.3 came out I have been a paying supporter of SuSE all
the way back to version 7 and wanted to stick with them, but this
Novell thing has changed so much (for good and bad), so I decided to
stick with 9.2 as my last "pay for" SuSE, and ended up downloading
10.0 since I wasn't sure it was going to work for me on my new
hardware (SATA-DVD-RW) and didn't want to waste the $90.

I am curious which "ftp site" you are using that has the "ham"
packages, I have the packman site and the guru sites as well as a
couple others I can't remember setup in YAST, but when I do a search
for any "ax25" stuff it comes up with nothing... I understand why they
no longer put the ham stuff on the DVD, I was tickled when I installed
SuSE for the first time way back when and it actually had a "ham"
package group, I thought that was so cool, I felt I had finally gotten
a distro' that recognized my interests...

Thanks for the input Mike and let me know which install source you are
using that has the "ham" packages, I will give it a try in YAST.

73
Doug
N7BFS

RE: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Mike McCarthy, W1NR]

Here are a couple I use

ftp://ftp.esat.net/mirrors/ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/ham/

ftp://ftp-linux.cc.gatech.edu/pub/suse/projects/ham/

There are 9.3 and 10.0 directories there.  Of course there is always
ftp.suse.com but that site is usually too busy to give any good throughput.

Mike, W1NR


-----Original Message-----
From: linux-hams-owner@vger.kernel.org
[mailto:linux-hams-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Cole
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 8:08 PM
To: Mike McCarthy, W1NR
Cc: linux-hams@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

On 1/4/06, Mike McCarthy, W1NR <lists@w1nr.net> wrote:
> I still see SuSE as very ham friendly.  The problem with the AX25 
> drivers is the 2.6.13 kernel across ALL distros.  SuSE 10.0 just 
> happens to have the broken one and unless the maintainer gets the 
> fixes into the global 2.6.13 update, all distros using it will remain
broken.  10.1 should "hopefully"
> fix the problem with the 2.6.15 kernel.
I hate being on this upgrade "treadmill" but will have to give 10.1 a try
when it comes out sounds hopeful.

>
> Since 9.3, SuSE has started removing some software from the CD's.  The 
> ham software was one of the packages they decided to take out.  That 
> does not mean they are not available.  Just point an installation 
> source at any of the mirrors that have the "projects/ham" directory 
> and you get all of the ham radio packages.  If you want java, extra 
> perl libraries and much of what used to fit on a single DVD but 
> doesn't any more, the ftp mirrors have the packages available and can 
> be installed and maintained through YaST by adding installation 
> sources.  AX25 is still compiled into the kernel as a module, so kernel
recompilation is not needed.

Yup, up until 9.3 came out I have been a paying supporter of SuSE all the
way back to version 7 and wanted to stick with them, but this Novell thing
has changed so much (for good and bad), so I decided to stick with 9.2 as my
last "pay for" SuSE, and ended up downloading 10.0 since I wasn't sure it
was going to work for me on my new hardware (SATA-DVD-RW) and didn't want to
waste the $90.

I am curious which "ftp site" you are using that has the "ham"
packages, I have the packman site and the guru sites as well as a couple
others I can't remember setup in YAST, but when I do a search for any "ax25"
stuff it comes up with nothing... I understand why they no longer put the
ham stuff on the DVD, I was tickled when I installed SuSE for the first time
way back when and it actually had a "ham"
package group, I thought that was so cool, I felt I had finally gotten a
distro' that recognized my interests...

Thanks for the input Mike and let me know which install source you are using
that has the "ham" packages, I will give it a try in YAST.

73
Doug
N7BFS
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Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Bob Nielsen]

On Jan 4, 2006, at 3:09 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

> * Douglas Cole <doug.n7bfs@gmail.com> [2006 Jan 04 15:21 -0600]:
>
>> So my question is, which distro' would one reccomend to someone  
>> who is
>> used to using a distro' that does not require recompiling the kernel
>> every time I turn around?
>
> Debian seems to have a very modular kernel with most, if not all, of
> the ham radio support enabled.  A number of hams are active in Debian
> which helps the ham radio support, IMO.
>
>> I was thinking maybe Kubuntu, or one of the Debian based distro's  
>> just
>> for the sake of the ease with which APT makes updating/upgrading, but
>> since I have not spent enough time with Debian based distro's I am  
>> not
>> sure that is going to fit my needs.
>
> Unless the Kubuntu team builds a radically different kernel, it's ham
> radio support should be about equal.
>

The Ubuntu kernels work fine and I think Kubuntu only differs in  
using KDE instead of Gnome for X apps.  Debian (Ubuntu, Kubuntu) have  
most ham applications already packaged (Ubuntu will even supply CDs  
for free, including shipping).

>> But what 2.6 kernel-based distro' really shines for use Amateur radio
>> opp's at the moment ?
>
> Check out Harv's Ham Shack.  It seems to be a ham radio oriented
> distribution.

Likewise AFU-Knoppix, another live-cd based on Knoppix, which is  
based on Debian.

For AX.25, you will probably want a 2.6.14 or later kernel.  I  
couldn't find any kernels later than 2.6.8 on the Debian site and  
don't know if that one is prior to AX.25 breaking.  Ubuntu 6.04 will  
be released in April with a 2.6.15 kernel (which can be used now if  
one upgrades to the preview "dapper" distribution).  I tried  
installing that kernel on Ubuntu 5.10, but ran into dependency  
problems and it was easier to compile my own than to deal with these  
(I'm running a DX spider cluster and several servers on that box and  
it has been extremely stable).  Debian's kernel-package tool makes  
kernel compilation quite a simple task.

Ubuntu and Kubuntu are basically Debian with a more aggressive (every  
six months) release schedule.  Many of the Ubuntu developers are also  
Debian developers.

73,
Bob, N7XY

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Nate Bargmann]

* Bob Nielsen <nielsen@oz.net> [2006 Jan 04 19:35 -0600]:

> For AX.25, you will probably want a 2.6.14 or later kernel.  I  
> couldn't find any kernels later than 2.6.8 on the Debian site and  
> don't know if that one is prior to AX.25 breaking.

2.6.15 just landed into Unstable within the past couple of days.  It
will be some time before it migrates into Testing.  For ham radio use
with Debian it's probably better to track Testing than Stable even
though Unstable seems less broken than Testing these days.

> Ubuntu and Kubuntu are basically Debian with a more aggressive (every  
> six months) release schedule.  Many of the Ubuntu developers are also  
> Debian developers.

Much to the benefit of both.

73, de Nate >>

-- 
 Wireless | Amateur Radio Station N0NB          |  Successfully Microsoft
  Amateur radio exams; ham radio; Linux info @  | free since January 1998.
             http://www.qsl.net/n0nb/           |  "Debian, the choice of
             My Kawasaki KZ-650 SR @            |     a GNU generation!"
        http://www.networksplus.net/n0nb/       |   http://www.debian.org

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Adam Vazquez Kb2jpd]

Hi from Adam Kb2jpd.

I started giving out both Knoppix and started something here in NYC.

Thats for the mention of both Knoppix.

73 Adam kb2jpd


-----Original Message-----

From:  Bob Nielsen <nielsen@oz.net>
Subj:  Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?
Date:  Wed Jan 4, 2006 8:31 pm
Size:  2K
To:  linux-hams@vger.kernel.org


On Jan 4, 2006, at 3:09 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

> * Douglas Cole <doug.n7bfs@gmail.com> [2006 Jan 04 15:21 -0600]:
>
>> So my question is, which distro' would one reccomend to someone  
>> who is
>> used to using a distro' that does not require recompiling the kernel
>> every time I turn around?
>
> Debian seems to have a very modular kernel with most, if not all, of
> the ham radio support enabled.  A number of hams are active in Debian
> which helps the ham radio support, IMO.
>
>> I was thinking maybe Kubuntu, or one of the Debian based distro's  
>> just
>> for the sake of the ease with which APT makes updating/upgrading, but
>> since I have not spent enough time with Debian based distro's I am  
>> not
>> sure that is going to fit my needs.
>
> Unless the Kubuntu team builds a radically different kernel, it's ham
> radio support should be about equal.
>

The Ubuntu kernels work fine and I think Kubuntu only differs in  
using KDE instead of Gnome for X apps.  Debian (Ubuntu, Kubuntu) have  
most ham applications already packaged (Ubuntu will even supply CDs  
for free, including shipping).

>> But what 2.6 kernel-based distro' really shines for use Amateur radio
>> opp's at the moment ?
>
> Check out Harv's Ham Shack.  It seems to be a ham radio oriented
> distribution.

Likewise AFU-Knoppix, another live-cd based on Knoppix, which is  
based on Debian.

For AX.25, you will probably want a 2.6.14 or later kernel.  I  
couldn't find any kernels later than 2.6.8 on the Debian site and  
don't know if that one is prior to AX.25 breaking.  Ubuntu 6.04 will  
be released in April with a 2.6.15 kernel (which can be used now if  
one upgrades to the preview "dapper" distribution).  I tried  
installing that kernel on Ubuntu 5.10, but ran into dependency  
problems and it was easier to compile my own than to deal with these  
(I'm running a DX spider cluster and several servers on that box and  
it has been extremely stable).  Debian's kernel-package tool makes  
kernel compilation quite a simple task.

Ubuntu and Kubuntu are basically Debian with a more aggressive (every  
six months) release schedule.  Many of the Ubuntu developers are also  
Debian developers.

73,
Bob, N7XY

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Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Douglas Cole]

On 1/4/06, Mike McCarthy, W1NR <lists@w1nr.net> wrote:
> Here are a couple I use
>
> ftp://ftp.esat.net/mirrors/ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/ham/
>
> ftp://ftp-linux.cc.gatech.edu/pub/suse/projects/ham/
>
> There are 9.3 and 10.0 directories there.  Of course there is always
> ftp.suse.com but that site is usually too busy to give any good throughput.
>
> Mike, W1NR
>
Thanks Mike for the sources, they seem to cover most of the packages I
use, and the ones that aren't there I have been used to installing
from source anyway (predict and Linpac), I just finished putting them
into YAST and hey, now I see AX25 and other ham stuff in the software
manager :)

Cool, thanks again for helping!

Doug
N7BFS

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Curt Mills]

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Douglas Cole wrote:

> Thanks Mike for the sources, they seem to cover most of the packages I
> use, and the ones that aren't there I have been used to installing
> from source anyway (predict and Linpac), I just finished putting them
> into YAST and hey, now I see AX25 and other ham stuff in the software
> manager :)

FWIW:  I try to keep Xastir RPM's up-to-date with the latest stable
and devel Xastir releases and for whatever SuSE I'm currently
running.  Currently they're for SuSE 9.0.  They're available from
the Binary Downloads section of http://www.xastir.org

Xastir is a package that used to come on the SuSE disks.  It does
ham APRS & Mapping.

-- 
Curt, WE7U.				archer at eskimo dot com
http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
  Lotto:  A tax on people who are bad at math. - unknown
Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. - WE7U.
The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!"

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 08:36:33PM -0800, Curt Mills wrote:
> Xastir is a package that used to come on the SuSE disks.  It does
> ham APRS & Mapping.

It comes on the Debian disks too.

Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <hamish@debian.org> <hamish@cloud.net.au>

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 04:40:04PM -0800, Douglas Cole wrote:
> On 1/4/06, Hamish Moffatt <hamish@cloud.net.au> wrote:
> > How about Debian itself?

> Thanks Hamish for all you have done for Linux-Ham related  stuff and
> for all your opinions folks, I guess most of you have not used the
> "easy" distro's like SuSE, Redhat/Fedora and Mandrake recently, that
> make setting up the "tough" stuff like X, networking (wireless and
> wired) and sound a breeze, for all you folks who are programmers or
> have built your own distro' from scratch or have been compiling your
> own kernels since ver 1.1 well all I can say is I look up to you in
> awe, but unfortunately even though I have been using Linux since my
> first Yggdrsil six disc set (1996 I guess) I never did get the hang of
> doing all the stuff that most of you folks seem to feel is so easy. So

Doug,

Please try Debian's most recent release, sarge (3.1). The installation
process was completely rewritten (first rewrite in years) and does make
everything easy.

Debian installation used to be (perceived as) hard, but that shouldn't
be true any more.

Ubuntu (and presumably Kubuntu) is using the new Debian installer.


Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <hamish@debian.org> <hamish@cloud.net.au>

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Margaret Leber]

Hamish Moffatt wrote:

> Debian installation used to be (perceived as) hard, but that shouldn't
> be true any more.
> 
> Ubuntu (and presumably Kubuntu) is using the new Debian installer.

I upgraded my aging Red Hat 7.1 installation to Ubuntu 5.10. (OK, it 
wasn't an upgrade install as such; I just stuck in a new HD (I needed 
one) and created a dual boot system.

I'm very, very pleased with the results. Installation was quite easy.

73 de Maggie K3XS
Editor, Phil-Mont Mobile Radio Club Blurb - http://www.phil-mont.org
Elecraft K2 #1641

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 09:19:08AM -0500, Margaret Leber wrote:
> Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> 
> >Debian installation used to be (perceived as) hard, but that shouldn't
> >be true any more.
> >
> >Ubuntu (and presumably Kubuntu) is using the new Debian installer.
> 
> I upgraded my aging Red Hat 7.1 installation to Ubuntu 5.10. (OK, it 
> wasn't an upgrade install as such; I just stuck in a new HD (I needed 
> one) and created a dual boot system.
> 
> I'm very, very pleased with the results. Installation was quite easy.

Great. I'd be even more pleased if you'd gone with Debian instead. :)


Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <hamish@debian.org> <hamish@cloud.net.au>

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Curt, WE7U]

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Hamish Moffatt wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 08:36:33PM -0800, Curt Mills wrote:
> > Xastir is a package that used to come on the SuSE disks.  It does
> > ham APRS & Mapping.
>
> It comes on the Debian disks too.

Just wanted to mention:  Because Xastir is part of the Debian
distribution and therefore easy to install on that distro, we get
very few questions from the Debian crowd on the Xastir lists.
Either that or the Debian users just tend to be smarter.  hi hi

Another well-known Linux distribution used to distribute Xastir, but
they kept distributing the same exact version for years, doing the
users a disfavor and making upgrades of the package difficult.

Thanks for your work keeping things up-to-date on Debian.  It's most
appreciated!

--
Curt, WE7U.   APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto:    A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!"

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Douglas Cole]

On 1/6/06, Hamish Moffatt <hamish@cloud.net.au> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 04:40:04PM -0800, Douglas Cole wrote:
> > On 1/4/06, Hamish Moffatt <hamish@cloud.net.au> wrote:
> > > How about Debian itself?
>
> > Thanks Hamish for all you have done for Linux-Ham related  stuff and
> > for all your opinions folks, I guess most of you have not used the
> > "easy" distro's like SuSE, Redhat/Fedora and Mandrake recently, that
> > make setting up the "tough" stuff like X, networking (wireless and
> > wired) and sound a breeze, for all you folks who are programmers or
> > have built your own distro' from scratch or have been compiling your
> > own kernels since ver 1.1 well all I can say is I look up to you in
> > awe, but unfortunately even though I have been using Linux since my
> > first Yggdrsil six disc set (1996 I guess) I never did get the hang of
> > doing all the stuff that most of you folks seem to feel is so easy. So
>
> Doug,
>
> Please try Debian's most recent release, sarge (3.1). The installation
> process was completely rewritten (first rewrite in years) and does make
> everything easy.
>
> Debian installation used to be (perceived as) hard, but that shouldn't
> be true any more.
>
> Ubuntu (and presumably Kubuntu) is using the new Debian installer.
>
>
> Hamish
> --
Thanks for the input Hamish, but I didn't really have a problem with
installation on Debian, it was setup and hardware support, since
Debian has such a slooooowwwww upgrade cycle, I couldn't use it on
half my pc's in the house because it either (at the time) wouldn't
support my usb devices or (recently) wouldn't support my SATA devices,
and so the reason for going with the SuSE.

I will give it a try and we will see, but the learning curve may not
make it possible, since my time is tight at the moment...

Thanks again for the input!

Doug

> Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <hamish@debian.org> <hamish@cloud.net.au>

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[K. David Prince]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2006, Douglas Cole wrote:

> Thanks for the input Hamish, but I didn't really have a problem with
> installation on Debian, it was setup and hardware support, since
> Debian has such a slooooowwwww upgrade cycle, I couldn't use it on

Actually, if you want the latest and greatest, you can install either 
Debian "etch" (testing) or "sid" (unstable).  And, that will give you a 
very dynamic upgrade cycle!  I'm a heavy user of both Debian and Ubuntu. 
The former for the workstations and servers I maintain in our student lab, 
and the latter for personal use (laptops and personal workstations). 
Ubuntu "tends" to have the easier install of the two, and that's good for 
students who are trying to install for the first time.  Dave/WB0RAZ

> half my pc's in the house because it either (at the time) wouldn't
> support my usb devices or (recently) wouldn't support my SATA devices,
> and so the reason for going with the SuSE.
>
> I will give it a try and we will see, but the learning curve may not
> make it possible, since my time is tight at the moment...
>
> Thanks again for the input!
>
> Doug
>
>> Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <hamish@debian.org> <hamish@cloud.net.au>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-hams" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Bob Nielsen]

Hey Curt,

Xastir evolves so quickly that no distribution can keep up!

I once conceived the concept of CVSLinux, where you continuously  
upgrade everything and can never get any work done because your  
compiler is using all the resources all the time (or maybe it should  
be called Extreme Gentoo).  :^)

73, Bob N7XY

On Jan 6, 2006, at 6:37 AM, Curt, WE7U wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 08:36:33PM -0800, Curt Mills wrote:
>>> Xastir is a package that used to come on the SuSE disks.  It does
>>> ham APRS & Mapping.
>>
>> It comes on the Debian disks too.
>
> Just wanted to mention:  Because Xastir is part of the Debian
> distribution and therefore easy to install on that distro, we get
> very few questions from the Debian crowd on the Xastir lists.
> Either that or the Debian users just tend to be smarter.  hi hi
>
> Another well-known Linux distribution used to distribute Xastir, but
> they kept distributing the same exact version for years, doing the
> users a disfavor and making upgrades of the package difficult.
>
> Thanks for your work keeping things up-to-date on Debian.  It's most
> appreciated!
>
> --
> Curt, WE7U.   APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
> "Lotto:    A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
> "Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
> "The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!"
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux- 
> hams" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Curt, WE7U]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2006, Bob Nielsen wrote:

> Xastir evolves so quickly that no distribution can keep up!

Then the question is, WHAT are we evolving into!  Sounds like
something that would be on the SciFi channel eventually.  The Blob
from planet APRS.


> I once conceived the concept of CVSLinux, where you continuously
> upgrade everything and can never get any work done because your
> compiler is using all the resources all the time (or maybe it should
> be called Extreme Gentoo).  :^)

Easy to solve:  Continually run through the list of packages doing
cvs updates.  If you get an update on a package, start the make
install for that package but "nice" the process as much as possible.
that way the compiler can be running quite a bit of the time but the
system would still be responsive.  Perhaps change to a higher
priority for compiling when nobody was logged in or when some
admin-managed schedule allowed.

That'd be funny.  I think I'd run it!  I'd have bragging rights that
my system was more up-to-date than any others'.  ;-)

--
Curt, WE7U.   APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto:    A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!"

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Bob Nielsen]

On Jan 6, 2006, at 6:58 AM, Douglas Cole wrote:

>
> Thanks for the input Hamish, but I didn't really have a problem with
> installation on Debian, it was setup and hardware support, since
> Debian has such a slooooowwwww upgrade cycle, I couldn't use it on
> half my pc's in the house because it either (at the time) wouldn't
> support my usb devices or (recently) wouldn't support my SATA devices,
> and so the reason for going with the SuSE.
>

That's been a very common complaint and gave rise to the "testing"  
version which is safer to use than Debian unstable.  It probably also  
one of the things which led to the creation of Ubuntu, which could be  
roughly described as a regularly upgraded combination of testing and  
unstable, with security updates (plus a few things which aren't  
really  "free", like binary-only drivers for certain video and  
wireless cards whose creators haven't seen the light).

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 09:39:47AM -0800, Bob Nielsen wrote:
> Xastir evolves so quickly that no distribution can keep up!

Etch (Debian testing) does; it has XASTIR 1.7.0. Generally speaking a
new version could be in etch within 2 weeks of it being released by Curt
and the team.

Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <hamish@debian.org> <hamish@cloud.net.au>

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Bob Nielsen]

On Jan 6, 2006, at 3:27 PM, Hamish Moffatt wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 09:39:47AM -0800, Bob Nielsen wrote:
>> Xastir evolves so quickly that no distribution can keep up!
>
> Etch (Debian testing) does; it has XASTIR 1.7.0. Generally speaking a
> new version could be in etch within 2 weeks of it being released by  
> Curt
> and the team.
>

Yes I realize that, Hamish (good job, by the way).  I was really  
referring to the CVS version which often seems to change several  
times a day.

73,
Bob, N7XY

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Ian Haver]

Hi all.
If i can just add my two pennies worth on the distro wars.
I originally run RedHat 4.0 many years back with just a console and jnos.
If was fast and fab. Then I wanted to write a letter, errm wheres the 
equivillent of
M$ Word. there isnt one. It also become more apparent that this linux i 
had found in mid 90`s
was quite a tool. Anyway to cut a long story short i dont go for a ham 
distro because most
distro`s run ham apps with very little mods/tweeking. Instead i went for 
the more glossy
workstation/desktop type and then have the fun and excitement of getting 
the ham bits to work
on it.
Theres enough of us so called experienced linux operators out there to 
guide the newbies
now, so theres not really a massive problem anymore. Lets face it its 
not hard to install any of the
recent distributions now. Maybe getting a few hardware issues can be a 
heart ache but by
enlarge linux goes onto pc hardware pretty well these days.

In my experience, listening to a few newbies in my BBS area they are 
trying to install SUSE10 or
Mandrakes latest on a Pentium I clocked at 166Mhz wich had been running 
dos/win95.
It isnt going to work properly. I try to explain that they wouldnt run 
XP on it so it will struggle with
the later kernels and resources needed to make the system run smoothly 
in linux. The sooner these
linux vendors stop selling Linux spec as in 386/486 upwards the better. 
It should really be X86
architechture with min 1G proccessor and at least 256M Ram for those who 
require good desktop
applications.
Forthose who just want a console with no GUI then thats a different matter.
Although i was caught out there as well. One of my ham friends wanted a 
basic console mode ax25
interface between his lan machines and his packet. What better, run 
linux with all the ax25 bits and then with
his windoze based lan machines he can access the outside world. He did 
this on a P I 166 with 32M RAM.
It worked very well for him until one day he rung me and told me it had 
all gone very slow, when i got there
i found out he had worked out how to install packages and had installed 
the entire KDE suite. He also
managed to change the run level to 5. so hey he had a GUI as well but it 
was really slow and as a result his
retry rates had doubled in his packet setup.

So with all the woffle above i can only recommend from experience. Run a 
good fast machine with plenty of
Ram. Pick a Distibution which fruits with apps, you dont need to install 
them, but at least you can later.
Run Linux for at least a week if not two and learn how the linux 
operates especially its file structure and
permissions. Then have a play with ham radio. Because hopefully by then, 
you would have learned how to edit
and manipulate files. You would have learned how to delete or rename 
files and more so how to restart parts
of linux without rebooting the whole machine. I find in the ham world 
with Linux, give them a few days to
learn or they will soon be going back to windows with a grumpy face 
slagging off Linux at every convenience.

Best Regards All

Ian
G6VEY
SYSOP GB7YFS
Author Xarpm_plus
http://radiolinux.co.uk

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Nate Bargmann]

All very good points, Ian.

I would add that if anyone really wants a GUI on older hardware, then a
lightweight window manager is the order of the day (IceWM being my long
time favorite).  One must be careful because even some of them can be
themed to eat a lot of resources.

A modern KDE installation will work in 256 MB, but 512 or more is
better.  An advantage we have here is Linux land is that we can go
all-out eye candy or slim the system as required depending on needs and
resources.

Good Linux installin' to ya!  :-)

73, de Nate >>

-- 
 Wireless | Amateur Radio Station N0NB          |  Successfully Microsoft
  Amateur radio exams; ham radio; Linux info @  | free since January 1998.
             http://www.qsl.net/n0nb/           |  "Debian, the choice of
             My Kawasaki KZ-650 SR @            |     a GNU generation!"
        http://www.networksplus.net/n0nb/       |   http://www.debian.org

Re: Most 'HAM' friendly distro ?

[w9ya]

> On Fri, 6 Jan 2006, Bob Nielsen wrote:
>
>> Xastir evolves so quickly that no distribution can keep up!
>
> Then the question is, WHAT are we evolving into!  Sounds like
> something that would be on the SciFi channel eventually.  The Blob from
> planet APRS.
>
>
>> I once conceived the concept of CVSLinux, where you continuously
>> upgrade everything and can never get any work done because your
>> compiler is using all the resources all the time (or maybe it should
>> be called Extreme Gentoo).  :^)
>
> Easy to solve:  Continually run through the list of packages doing cvs
> updates.  If you get an update on a package, start the make
> install for that package but "nice" the process as much as possible.
> that way the compiler can be running quite a bit of the time but the
> system would still be responsive.  Perhaps change to a higher
> priority for compiling when nobody was logged in or when some
> admin-managed schedule allowed.

Sounds just like a distro I use to help maintain called "Sorcerer
GNU-Linux". It did exactly that if you asked it to. Used freshmeat as one
of the methods for getting needed info, and we had a central computer to
check the config./compile/install formulas too. That was a few years ago,
about the time Gentoo was getting started. Gentoo had good press and p.r.
and we just faded away I guess.

Oh yeah, one neato feature that was very unique was the ability for the
system to "self-heal" when things went south. That was also fun to watch.
It also allow the central computer to successful report a failure of the
formulas I mentioned above.

Anyways.....enough of the melancholy rant.

TTFN

es vy 73;

Bob
w9ya



>
> That'd be funny.  I think I'd run it!  I'd have bragging rights that my
> system was more up-to-date than any others'.  ;-)
>
> --
> Curt, WE7U.   APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
> "Lotto:    A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
> "Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
> "The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!" -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-hams" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Ralf Baechle DL5RB]

On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 04:26:49PM -0500, IT3 Stuart Blake Tener wrote:

> > Well as most recent postings seem to indicate some distro's are less
> > friendly than others for updating and changing kernels and other
> > things.
> > I too am using SuSE (version 10) for my desktop OS, but still have a
> > separate pc running SuSE 8.2 for packet, since it is the one that
> > works for me, and as has been posted on here many times, 2.6 kernel
> > packet issues have been many.
> 
> My desktop OS is MacOS, and when the new Mac/Intel machines come out, I will
> purchase one and run Linux as a secondary OS, since AX.25 is not supported by
> MacOS, and cannot be added either.

For MacOS and others you may consider one of the integrated AX.25 stack
and apps like JNOS, Wampes or similar.  I consider those conceptually a
bad thing - but certainly they're easy to setup and consistent across a
wide variety of operating systems.

73 de DL5RB op Ralf

--
Loc. JN47BS / CQ 14 / ITU 28 / DOK A21

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Ralf Baechle DL5RB]

On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 07:27:59PM -0500, Mike McCarthy, W1NR wrote:

> I still see SuSE as very ham friendly.  The problem with the AX25 drivers is
> the 2.6.13 kernel across ALL distros.  SuSE 10.0 just happens to have the
> broken one and unless the maintainer gets the fixes into the global 2.6.13
> update, all distros using it will remain broken.  10.1 should "hopefully"
> fix the problem with the 2.6.15 kernel.
> 
> Since 9.3, SuSE has started removing some software from the CD's.  The ham
> software was one of the packages they decided to take out.  That does not
> mean they are not available.  Just point an installation source at any of
> the mirrors that have the "projects/ham" directory and you get all of the
> ham radio packages.  If you want java, extra perl libraries and much of what
> used to fit on a single DVD but doesn't any more, the ftp mirrors have the
> packages available and can be installed and maintained through YaST by
> adding installation sources.  AX25 is still compiled into the kernel as a
> module, so kernel recompilation is not needed.

But for how much longer?  Part of the proboem is that AX.25 is relativly
intrusive protocol.  Just enabling it as a module that is never load will
increase - the amount of memory for every packet.  It's also not bullet-
proof but the code is slowly getting there.  I can only encourage
everybody to contribute again.  There are man drivers waiting to be
written, many bug waiting to be fixed, many features waiting to be
implemented.

  Ralf

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Curt Mills]

On Sat, 7 Jan 2006, Nate Bargmann wrote:

> I would add that if anyone really wants a GUI on older hardware, then a
> lightweight window manager is the order of the day (IceWM being my long
> time favorite).  One must be careful because even some of them can be
> themed to eat a lot of resources.

I run FVWM2 for exactly these reasons.  Fast, small memory image,
reliable.  Not flashy by today's standards, but I don't need flashy.
I'd rather have the system be fast/responsive/efficent.  I've tried
KDE, Gnome, and many others, but always end up going back to FVWM2
because I want fast loading and I like the mouse to be very
responsive.


> A modern KDE installation will work in 256 MB, but 512 or more is
> better.  An advantage we have here is Linux land is that we can go
> all-out eye candy or slim the system as required depending on needs and
> resources.

I have Slackware running on a PP200 laptop with 32MB memory, running
X11 and Xastir.  Full compile environment on there too.

I also have a truck-mount PC in my Jeep at times which is a P133
with 64MB memory, running Slackware and Xastir, doing moving maps on
topo maps and sending/receiving APRS via a TNC/radio, plus running
the Festival speech synthesizer (which takes 1/4 of my memory) and
talking to me as I'm driving.  You can do a lot with a little if
you're careful.  That box also has a full compile environment.

For desktops though I tend to run SuSE.  Still with FVWM2 window
manager though.

Lots of choices.  That's the best thing about Unix/Linux...

-- 
Curt, WE7U.				archer at eskimo dot com
http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
  Lotto:  A tax on people who are bad at math. - unknown
Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. - WE7U.
The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!"

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[stephen]

Hello,

with the recent info/messages etc about the most "ham" friendly disto. I have 
been downloading debian 3.1.. I have one question though, what cd's should I 
download as there are 14 cd images.

I have sofar downloaded and burnt cd's 1-5.


-- 
Stephen - vk3heg
Ph: 0409149641

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:01:06PM +1100, stephen wrote:
> with the recent info/messages etc about the most "ham" friendly disto. I have 
> been downloading debian 3.1.. I have one question though, what cd's should I 
> download as there are 14 cd images.
> 
> I have sofar downloaded and burnt cd's 1-5.

You can install with any quantity from 1-14.. each builds on the previous
one. The ham stuff will probably be on the later ones though as it is
less popular.

Also you can use whatever you have on CD and fetch the rest from the
Internet. Actually you can start with as little as a 30Mb CD image, with
the rest coming via internet.


Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <hamish@debian.org> <hamish@cloud.net.au>

Re: Most "HAM" friendly distro ?

[Nate Bargmann]

* stephen <vk3heg@iinet.net.au> [2006 Jan 09 06:08 -0600]:
> Hello,
> 
> with the recent info/messages etc about the most "ham" friendly disto. I have 
> been downloading debian 3.1.. I have one question though, what cd's should I 
> download as there are 14 cd images.
> 
> I have sofar downloaded and burnt cd's 1-5.

I've used the net-installer image which is quite small and then
downloaded just the packages I wanted to install through aptitude.

73, de Nate >>

-- 
 Wireless | Amateur Radio Station N0NB          |  Successfully Microsoft
  Amateur radio exams; ham radio; Linux info @  | free since January 1998.
             http://www.qsl.net/n0nb/           |  "Debian, the choice of
             My Kawasaki KZ-650 SR @            |     a GNU generation!"
        http://www.networksplus.net/n0nb/       |   http://www.debian.org