From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50CEFC77B7A for ; Thu, 25 May 2023 16:07:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S231263AbjEYQHL (ORCPT ); Thu, 25 May 2023 12:07:11 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:51256 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S234699AbjEYQHI (ORCPT ); Thu, 25 May 2023 12:07:08 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-xb4a.google.com (mail-yb1-xb4a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b4a]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B80EE56 for ; Thu, 25 May 2023 09:07:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb4a.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-ba8cf175f5bso1669445276.0 for ; Thu, 25 May 2023 09:07:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20221208; t=1685030822; x=1687622822; h=cc:to:from:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=T8fhdJsa5NorDsEqTWIJQ5b4Ve27T8A/3D8mN23h+AM=; b=FEqq2WYT2bpFD+1TtSHkaFzNdRiEuyI2g6NACjIvhMwGd2nTXz/TFAkSgH9Ujas6q/ vhfG2wZKYTJDUOpnLW2+ofbeXlQQzMc4kCX+fmSU72PlK4P1Bu6ChRJwig3K6o+kmK9V pCl4CF26O5Po2Isyv/JlTTvFCsfs3ZUrFwA7UHCTWbISgu9JRVShkNuOUaec2GLwo+qR 9KOOx1CsOYaN5w2VTeTg1ACrMvUsp1nWuR5WaKwUiyP0rqYNcgG1cqc/7vdfOhawEkwt dDqOiNZlzeyBYZO39XTCtpGesfMZs3DSR4tffu8EiIq8HLxLRNoWCQV/DwcUzn5RT3NK ujWQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1685030822; x=1687622822; h=cc:to:from:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=T8fhdJsa5NorDsEqTWIJQ5b4Ve27T8A/3D8mN23h+AM=; b=XdBSRVe1mG19l6Sh1hY6U8OiW36AQcqoUb7D5Mjsc93E1sfebGX0ZL+pIsJNP1KnpV /4vzlG5NOOAMBxJh92GdLWTU/5DIw9sZqhGkgdqa4TRHbbJkAGk91aGJ5nbSJmJ7jOwu JL7GviSsjPEYK6GzkRoHUAv/KRcAn1rWqLkPyJ01t6XuwDCV5Dqd2UrgCl9gP9Z37wL4 sBU3AqOxbIMwC3E+owiVLYpT0T0jlh8mRcU/KKYwhrcSQunIC8D433GzBuzPM4spHPjV gGx20CTpDR1opDRWW5eLFWYZLb4aGMgl4BBM4G0tNihsYmS/EktRolg2yObMyyp8wzMk iQLQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDwtiA9YewhDPNOZAeXrewVMAPnredN3AICn+Hya8ev8q7ycYXvf oAi2s02fh2z5rXlfjQ0oHEiYxKS9nyQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ6yBYNFZuYhfNGO52o3ys/I0sQ5pEx4h3FPL/IsVNBvdz1hiS3BsLpfaNj0iWMqAGXV//6VIasdS2w= X-Received: from zagreus.c.googlers.com ([fda3:e722:ac3:cc00:7f:e700:c0a8:5c37]) (user=seanjc job=sendgmr) by 2002:a25:6584:0:b0:ba8:381b:f764 with SMTP id z126-20020a256584000000b00ba8381bf764mr2233557ybb.3.1685030821985; Thu, 25 May 2023 09:07:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 09:07:00 -0700 In-Reply-To: <7cb6c4c28c077bb9f866c2d795e918610e77d49f.camel@intel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20230505152046.6575-1-mic@digikod.net> <93726a7b9498ec66db21c5792079996d5fed5453.camel@intel.com> <7cb6c4c28c077bb9f866c2d795e918610e77d49f.camel@intel.com> Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v1 0/9] Hypervisor-Enforced Kernel Integrity From: Sean Christopherson To: Rick P Edgecombe Cc: "mic@digikod.net" , "dave.hansen@linux.intel.com" , "bp@alien8.de" , "keescook@chromium.org" , "hpa@zytor.com" , "mingo@redhat.com" , "tglx@linutronix.de" , "pbonzini@redhat.com" , "wanpengli@tencent.com" , "vkuznets@redhat.com" , "kvm@vger.kernel.org" , "qemu-devel@nongnu.org" , "liran.alon@oracle.com" , "marian.c.rotariu@gmail.com" , Alexander Graf , John S Andersen , "madvenka@linux.microsoft.com" , "ssicleru@bitdefender.com" , "yuanyu@google.com" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , "tgopinath@microsoft.com" , "jamorris@linux.microsoft.com" , "linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org" , "xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org" , "will@kernel.org" , "dev@lists.cloudhypervisor.org" , "mdontu@bitdefender.com" , "linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-hyperv@vger.kernel.org" , "virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org" , "nicu.citu@icloud.com" , "ztarkhani@microsoft.com" , "x86@kernel.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org On Thu, May 25, 2023, Rick P Edgecombe wrote: > I wonder if it might be a good idea to POC the guest side before > settling on the KVM interface. Then you can also look at the whole > thing and judge how much usage it would get for the different options > of restrictions. As I said earlier[*], IMO the control plane logic needs to live in host userspace. I think any attempt to have KVM providen anything but the low level plumbing will suffer the same fate as CR4 pinning and XO memory. Iterating on an imperfect solution to incremently improve security is far, far easier to do in userspace, and far more likely to get merged. [*] https://lore.kernel.org/all/ZFUyhPuhtMbYdJ76@google.com