udev not running new rules

udev not running new rules

[Peter Gordon]

I am using Debian Etch.

I have the directory in /etc/udev/rules.d

lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   20 2007-06-19 16:52 020_permissions.rules -> ../permissions.rules
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   13 2007-06-19 16:52 udev.rules -> ../udev.rules
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  138 2007-07-29 14:28 z19_persistent-anet.rules
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   25 2007-06-19 16:52 z20_persistent-input.rules -> ../persistent-input.rules
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   19 2007-06-19 16:52 z20_persistent.rules -> ../persistent.rules
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1070 2007-06-19 17:09 z25_persistent-cd.rules
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   23 2007-06-26 00:57 z25_persistent-net.rules -> ../persistent-net.rules
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 2007-06-19 16:52 z50_run.rules -> ../run.rules
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   16 2007-06-19 16:52 z55_hotplug.rules -> ../hotplug.rules
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   29 2007-06-19 16:52 z75_cd-aliases-generator.rules -> ../cd-aliases-generator.rules

Initially, the file ../persistent-net.rules does not exist.

The rule z19_persistent-anet.rules is:

PROGRAM="/var/www/lib/produce_persistent_rules.pl"

The object of the program is to rename one of the NICs, and simply produces a rule
SUBSYSTEMS="pci", KERNELS="0000:09:01.0", NAME="ctl"

It runs a Perl program that creates the file ../persistent-net.rules.

After a reboot, the file is created, but udev claims that it doesn't exist.

After a second reboot, udev manages to read the file successfully.

Killing udev and restarting doesn't help.

It seems that udev firstly checks which files exist. How can I get the new rule set to be run as soon as it is created?

Thanks,

Peter






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Re: udev not running new rules

[Marco d'Itri]

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On Aug 12, Peter Gordon <peter@pg-consultants.com> wrote:

> Killing udev and restarting doesn't help.
I just do not believe this.

> It seems that udev firstly checks which files exist. How can I get the new rule set to be run as soon as it is created?
No, it does not. Do not use a symlink.

-- 
ciao,
Marco

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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 315 bytes --]

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Re: udev not running new rules

[Kay Sievers]

On 8/12/07, Peter Gordon <peter@pg-consultants.com> wrote:
>
> I am using Debian Etch.
>
> I have the directory in /etc/udev/rules.d
>
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   20 2007-06-19 16:52 020_permissions.rules -> ../permissions.rules
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   13 2007-06-19 16:52 udev.rules -> ../udev.rules
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  138 2007-07-29 14:28 z19_persistent-anet.rules
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   25 2007-06-19 16:52 z20_persistent-input.rules -> ../persistent-input.rules
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   19 2007-06-19 16:52 z20_persistent.rules -> ../persistent.rules
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1070 2007-06-19 17:09 z25_persistent-cd.rules
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   23 2007-06-26 00:57 z25_persistent-net.rules -> ../persistent-net.rules
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 2007-06-19 16:52 z50_run.rules -> ../run.rules
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   16 2007-06-19 16:52 z55_hotplug.rules -> ../hotplug.rules
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   29 2007-06-19 16:52 z75_cd-aliases-generator.rules -> ../cd-aliases-generator.rules
>
> Initially, the file ../persistent-net.rules does not exist.
>
> The rule z19_persistent-anet.rules is:
>
> PROGRAM="/var/www/lib/produce_persistent_rules.pl"
>
> The object of the program is to rename one of the NICs, and simply produces a rule
> SUBSYSTEMS="pci", KERNELS="0000:09:01.0", NAME="ctl"
>
> It runs a Perl program that creates the file ../persistent-net.rules.
>
> After a reboot, the file is created, but udev claims that it doesn't exist.
>
> After a second reboot, udev manages to read the file successfully.
>
> Killing udev and restarting doesn't help.
>
> It seems that udev firstly checks which files exist. How can I get the new rule set to be run as soon as it is created?

Rules are just matches/actions for events. Adding or removing rules
does nothing to any already existent device. Only the next event would
be processed with the new rules. Does that explain your problem?

Kay

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Re: udev not running new rules

[Peter Gordon]

On Sun, 2007-08-12 at 16:19 +0200, Kay Sievers wrote:
> On 8/12/07, Peter Gordon <peter@pg-consultants.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am using Debian Etch.
> >
> > I have the directory in /etc/udev/rules.d
> >
> > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   20 2007-06-19 16:52 020_permissions.rules -> ../permissions.rules
> > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   13 2007-06-19 16:52 udev.rules -> ../udev.rules
> > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  138 2007-07-29 14:28 z19_persistent-anet.rules
> > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   25 2007-06-19 16:52 z20_persistent-input.rules -> ../persistent-input.rules
> > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   19 2007-06-19 16:52 z20_persistent.rules -> ../persistent.rules
> > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1070 2007-06-19 17:09 z25_persistent-cd.rules
> > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   23 2007-06-26 00:57 z25_persistent-net.rules -> ../persistent-net.rules
> > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 2007-06-19 16:52 z50_run.rules -> ../run.rules
> > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   16 2007-06-19 16:52 z55_hotplug.rules -> ../hotplug.rules
> > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   29 2007-06-19 16:52 z75_cd-aliases-generator.rules -> ../cd-aliases-generator.rules
> >
> > Initially, the file ../persistent-net.rules does not exist.
> >
> > The rule z19_persistent-anet.rules is:
> >
> > PROGRAM="/var/www/lib/produce_persistent_rules.pl"
> >
> > The object of the program is to rename one of the NICs, and simply produces a rule
> > SUBSYSTEMS="pci", KERNELS="0000:09:01.0", NAME="ctl"
> >
> > It runs a Perl program that creates the file ../persistent-net.rules.
> >
> > After a reboot, the file is created, but udev claims that it doesn't exist.
> >
> > After a second reboot, udev manages to read the file successfully.
> >
> > Killing udev and restarting doesn't help.
> >
> > It seems that udev firstly checks which files exist. How can I get the new rule set to be run as soon as it is created?
> 
> Rules are just matches/actions for events. Adding or removing rules
> does nothing to any already existent device. Only the next event would
> be processed with the new rules. Does that explain your problem?
> 

I have deleted the soft link as suggested by Marco d'Itri and it didn't
help.

I understand about the already existing device.

If the event for a NIC occurs really early in the udev sequence, it
would seem that the z19_persistent-anet.rules is being run after the NIC
was created. 

I moved z19_persistent-anet.rules to 000z19_persistent-anet.rules to
force it to be the first rule.

It still creates the file, but doesn't manage to use the file until the
following reboot.

So I still don't have a handle on the problem. What would be the best
way to get debugging output?

Regards,

Peter






> Kay


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Re: udev not running new rules

[Kay Sievers]

On Sun, 2007-08-12 at 22:03 +0300, Peter Gordon wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-08-12 at 16:19 +0200, Kay Sievers wrote:
> > On 8/12/07, Peter Gordon <peter@pg-consultants.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am using Debian Etch.
> > >
> > > I have the directory in /etc/udev/rules.d
> > >
> > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   20 2007-06-19 16:52 020_permissions.rules -> ../permissions.rules
> > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   13 2007-06-19 16:52 udev.rules -> ../udev.rules
> > > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  138 2007-07-29 14:28 z19_persistent-anet.rules
> > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   25 2007-06-19 16:52 z20_persistent-input.rules -> ../persistent-input.rules
> > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   19 2007-06-19 16:52 z20_persistent.rules -> ../persistent.rules
> > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1070 2007-06-19 17:09 z25_persistent-cd.rules
> > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   23 2007-06-26 00:57 z25_persistent-net.rules -> ../persistent-net.rules
> > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 2007-06-19 16:52 z50_run.rules -> ../run.rules
> > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   16 2007-06-19 16:52 z55_hotplug.rules -> ../hotplug.rules
> > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   29 2007-06-19 16:52 z75_cd-aliases-generator.rules -> ../cd-aliases-generator.rules
> > >
> > > Initially, the file ../persistent-net.rules does not exist.
> > >
> > > The rule z19_persistent-anet.rules is:
> > >
> > > PROGRAM="/var/www/lib/produce_persistent_rules.pl"
> > >
> > > The object of the program is to rename one of the NICs, and simply produces a rule
> > > SUBSYSTEMS="pci", KERNELS="0000:09:01.0", NAME="ctl"
> > >
> > > It runs a Perl program that creates the file ../persistent-net.rules.
> > >
> > > After a reboot, the file is created, but udev claims that it doesn't exist.
> > >
> > > After a second reboot, udev manages to read the file successfully.
> > >
> > > Killing udev and restarting doesn't help.
> > >
> > > It seems that udev firstly checks which files exist. How can I get the new rule set to be run as soon as it is created?
> > 
> > Rules are just matches/actions for events. Adding or removing rules
> > does nothing to any already existent device. Only the next event would
> > be processed with the new rules. Does that explain your problem?
> > 
> 
> I have deleted the soft link as suggested by Marco d'Itri and it didn't
> help.
> 
> I understand about the already existing device.
> 
> If the event for a NIC occurs really early in the udev sequence, it
> would seem that the z19_persistent-anet.rules is being run after the NIC
> was created. 
> 
> I moved z19_persistent-anet.rules to 000z19_persistent-anet.rules to
> force it to be the first rule.
> 
> It still creates the file, but doesn't manage to use the file until the
> following reboot.
> 
> So I still don't have a handle on the problem. What would be the best
> way to get debugging output?

Do you expect to create a rules file and get that file applied
immediately to the running event? That doesn't work, rules are parsed
in-memory and only read by the daemon not by the event process.

You need to apply the result of the rule creation in the same event,
with the same rule that created the rules file for future events. Just
look at the standard solution for persistent network interfaces that
comes with udev, which probably just solves your problem anyway, or what
do you miss from it?

Kay


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Re: udev not running new rules

[Peter Gordon]

On Sun, 2007-08-12 at 21:28 +0200, Kay Sievers wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-08-12 at 22:03 +0300, Peter Gordon wrote:
> > On Sun, 2007-08-12 at 16:19 +0200, Kay Sievers wrote:
> > > On 8/12/07, Peter Gordon <peter@pg-consultants.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am using Debian Etch.
> > > >
> > > > I have the directory in /etc/udev/rules.d
> > > >
> > > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   20 2007-06-19 16:52 020_permissions.rules -> ../permissions.rules
> > > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   13 2007-06-19 16:52 udev.rules -> ../udev.rules
> > > > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  138 2007-07-29 14:28 z19_persistent-anet.rules
> > > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   25 2007-06-19 16:52 z20_persistent-input.rules -> ../persistent-input.rules
> > > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   19 2007-06-19 16:52 z20_persistent.rules -> ../persistent.rules
> > > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1070 2007-06-19 17:09 z25_persistent-cd.rules
> > > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   23 2007-06-26 00:57 z25_persistent-net.rules -> ../persistent-net.rules
> > > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 2007-06-19 16:52 z50_run.rules -> ../run.rules
> > > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   16 2007-06-19 16:52 z55_hotplug.rules -> ../hotplug.rules
> > > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   29 2007-06-19 16:52 z75_cd-aliases-generator.rules -> ../cd-aliases-generator.rules
> > > >
> > > > Initially, the file ../persistent-net.rules does not exist.
> > > >
> > > > The rule z19_persistent-anet.rules is:
> > > >
> > > > PROGRAM="/var/www/lib/produce_persistent_rules.pl"
> > > >
> > > > The object of the program is to rename one of the NICs, and simply produces a rule
> > > > SUBSYSTEMS="pci", KERNELS="0000:09:01.0", NAME="ctl"
> > > >
> > > > It runs a Perl program that creates the file ../persistent-net.rules.
> > > >
> > > > After a reboot, the file is created, but udev claims that it doesn't exist.
> > > >
> > > > After a second reboot, udev manages to read the file successfully.
> > > >
> > > > Killing udev and restarting doesn't help.
> > > >
> > > > It seems that udev firstly checks which files exist. How can I get the new rule set to be run as soon as it is created?
> > > 
> > > Rules are just matches/actions for events. Adding or removing rules
> > > does nothing to any already existent device. Only the next event would
> > > be processed with the new rules. Does that explain your problem?
> > > 
> > 
> > I have deleted the soft link as suggested by Marco d'Itri and it didn't
> > help.
> > 
> > I understand about the already existing device.
> > 
> > If the event for a NIC occurs really early in the udev sequence, it
> > would seem that the z19_persistent-anet.rules is being run after the NIC
> > was created. 
> > 
> > I moved z19_persistent-anet.rules to 000z19_persistent-anet.rules to
> > force it to be the first rule.
> > 
> > It still creates the file, but doesn't manage to use the file until the
> > following reboot.
> > 
> > So I still don't have a handle on the problem. What would be the best
> > way to get debugging output?
> 
> Do you expect to create a rules file and get that file applied
> immediately to the running event? That doesn't work, rules are parsed
> in-memory and only read by the daemon not by the event process.
> 
> You need to apply the result of the rule creation in the same event,
> with the same rule that created the rules file for future events. Just
> look at the standard solution for persistent network interfaces that
> comes with udev, which probably just solves your problem anyway, or what
> do you miss from it?
> 
My problem is this. I need to create the rules file at boot up since the
devices available may change from boot to boot, and the PCI addresses
are not guaranteed to be the same.

So I need to create the rules file and then get those rules run.

I had a look at the persistent network interfaces but I can't see how
that helps, since the rules are already extant. 


Peter


> Kay
> 


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Re: udev not running new rules

[Gerald V. Livingston II]

Peter Gordon said:

>> > > > The rule z19_persistent-anet.rules is:
>> > > >
>> > > > PROGRAM="/var/www/lib/produce_persistent_rules.pl"
>> > > >
>> > > > The object of the program is to rename one of the NICs, and simply
>> produces a rule
>> > > > SUBSYSTEMS="pci", KERNELS="0000:09:01.0", NAME="ctl"
>> > > >
>> > > > It runs a Perl program that creates the file
>> ../persistent-net.rules.

Kay Siever said:

>> You need to apply the result of the rule creation in the same event,
>> with the same rule that created the rules file for future events. Just
>> look at the standard solution for persistent network interfaces that
>> comes with udev, which probably just solves your problem anyway, or what
>> do you miss from it?

Peter Gordon said:

> My problem is this. I need to create the rules file at boot up since the
> devices available may change from boot to boot, and the PCI addresses
> are not guaranteed to be the same.
>
> So I need to create the rules file and then get those rules run.
>
> I had a look at the persistent network interfaces but I can't see how
> that helps, since the rules are already extant.

What does your perl program DO to get the info to write into the new rules
file? It obviously somehow knows it needs to write "SUBSYSTEMS="pci",
KERNELS="0000:09:01.0"" into the file.

Rather than writing that to a file, USE it to name the device.

Have it spit the PCI slot info into an environment variable the way the
other persistent rules do then use that var in the naming rule.

Now, I HONESTLY don't know if an environment variable can be used on the
right side of an "=" but what I've typed below looks reasonable if it
can.

If I'm way off base I'm sure the fine folks on this list will explain a
more proper way to use an ENV{VAR} that your perl program has made
available. I'm not trying to write the rule, just point in the right
direction.

SUBSYSTEMS="pci", KERNELS=ENV{CTLCARD}, NAME="ctl"

If ENV{CTLCARD} can't be used to the right of = then you have to think
about what your perl program is using to identify the correct card and use
THAT in the rule:

SUBSYSTEMS="pci" ENV{IDENT}={what perl uses to find the card}, NAME="ctl"

You have to find a way to make your perl program write identifying info
for all of the cards into the environment the way scsi_id writes drive
serial numbers into the environment, then use something from that list to
grab the right card. You may have to poke around in the scsi_id source and
write something similar for your NIC problem.

All rules are read into memory when udev loads at boot time then never
again. Run udevtest against a device to see it in action.

Gerald


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Re: udev not running new rules

[Bryan Kadzban]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Minor quibble:

Gerald V. Livingston II wrote:
> All rules are read into memory when udev loads at boot time then
> never again.

Unless your system has support for inotify.  Then udevd uses inotify to
wait for a rules-file to change, and reloads it.  Or at least, that's
what it used to do, and I doubt that something as useful as that would
have gotten removed.

(That's why having symlinks in the rules.d directory isn't good: udevd
can't watch the targets of the links, just the links themselves.)
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Re: udev not running new rules

[Kay Sievers]

On 8/13/07, Bryan Kadzban <bryan@kadzban.is-a-geek.net> wrote:
> Minor quibble:
>
> Gerald V. Livingston II wrote:
> > All rules are read into memory when udev loads at boot time then
> > never again.
>
> Unless your system has support for inotify.  Then udevd uses inotify to
> wait for a rules-file to change, and reloads it.  Or at least, that's
> what it used to do, and I doubt that something as useful as that would
> have gotten removed.

Sure, that still works, rules are watched for changes. But only for
events which are not already running, only new events will see the new
rules. If you write out a new rule/file, the events that are currently
running will not include the new rules.

Kay

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