udev HOWTO. Where is it ?

udev HOWTO. Where is it ?

[John D. Coleman]

I went to kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug and read udev-FAQ  
and udev_vs_devfs both of which mentions how great udev is and how bad  
devfs is. I even read  
http://www.kroah.com/linux/talks/ols_2003_udev_paper/Reprint-Kroah-Hartman-OLS2003.pdf.

Wow. udev seems to be a "musthave". The problem is: none of these  
documents EVER mentions HOW to install and use it !

In kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug, I see various files but  
no mention of what they are or how to use them.

Are you developing this software for use only by people with a Ph.D in  
Linux Software Engineering or for everyone ?

I do know my computer's hardware fairly well, but I'm still working on  
understanding Linux's kernel. So even if I installed udev I wouldn't  
know enough about what was happening to be able to at least submit a  
bug report to help you folks develope this software. But Joe Blow in  
Madison,WI might be nearly a Linux expert but you won't get any help  
out of him because he can't install it either.

I don't seem to really have a use for udev at the moment so I'll  
follow: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Though I'll need it if devfs  
support is dropped from the kernel.

Time for me to go back to scratching my head about iptables, ISO  
models, FIB,neighbour table, etc, ad nauseum. Ok. The data comes in the  
modem, hits iptables. Does route and arp play a role in this ? When  
does it go to the kernel?.......AHHH! nuts.

Bye.


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Re: udev HOWTO. Where is it ?

[Arun Bhanu]

On 23:59 Fri 10 Sep     , John D. Coleman wrote:
> Wow. udev seems to be a "musthave". The problem is: none of these  
> documents EVER mentions HOW to install and use it !
Udev setup:
http://webpages.charter.net/decibelshelp/LinuxHelp_UDEVPrimer.html

Writing udev rules:
http://www.reactivated.net/udevrules.php

                --Arun


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Re: udev HOWTO. Where is it ?

[Greg KH]

On Fri, Sep 10, 2004 at 11:59:14PM -0400, John D. Coleman wrote:
> I went to kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug and read udev-FAQ  
> and udev_vs_devfs both of which mentions how great udev is and how bad  
> devfs is. I even read  
> http://www.kroah.com/linux/talks/ols_2003_udev_paper/Reprint-Kroah-Hartman-OLS2003.pdf.
> 
> Wow. udev seems to be a "musthave". The problem is: none of these  
> documents EVER mentions HOW to install and use it !

Did you look in the udev tarball itself?  :)

In there you will see README file with lots of info on how to build and
install udev.  A HOWTO-udev-for-dev file which explains one way to set
up udev to manage your /dev, and a very good HOWTO on building udev
rules in the docs/ directory (along with some other good documentation.)

If that isn't enough, please let us know.

thanks,

greg k-h


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Re: udev HOWTO. Where is it ?

[John D. Coleman]

>Did you look in the udev tarball itself?  :)
>
> In there you will see README file with lots of info on how to build  
> and install udev.  A HOWTO-udev-for-dev file which explains one way  
> to set up udev to manage your /dev, and a very good HOWTO on building  
> udev rules in the docs/ directory (along with some other good
> documentation.)

No I have not looked in the tarball. There wasn't any indication in the  
udev-FAQ that I should look there for documentation. A README file in  
http://kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/ pointing people to  
those docs would be nice. And/Or make it item #1 in the FAQ. The FAQ  
and README files are the first two files that I look for when I go  
looking for software on a website.

Unless covered by the docs, an explanation of the files in the  
directory should be included in the README file also.

> Udev setup:
> http://webpages.charter.net/decibelshelp/LinuxHelp_UDEVPrimer.html

> Writing udev rules:
> http://www.reactivated.net/udevrules.php

>                --Arun

I'll read them also. Thanks.


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Re: udev HOWTO. Where is it ?

[Mike Frysinger]

On Saturday 11 September 2004 03:19 pm, John D. Coleman wrote:
> No I have not looked in the tarball. There wasn't any indication in the
> udev-FAQ that I should look there for documentation.

if you download a tarball full of source where else would you expect 
documentation ?
an included README or INSTALL file is _very_ common in source tarballs
-mike


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Re: udev HOWTO. Where is it ?

[Greg KH]

On Sat, Sep 11, 2004 at 03:19:23PM -0400, John D. Coleman wrote:
> >Did you look in the udev tarball itself?  :)
> >
> >In there you will see README file with lots of info on how to build  
> >and install udev.  A HOWTO-udev-for-dev file which explains one way  
> >to set up udev to manage your /dev, and a very good HOWTO on building  
> >udev rules in the docs/ directory (along with some other good
> >documentation.)
> 
> No I have not looked in the tarball. There wasn't any indication in the  
> udev-FAQ that I should look there for documentation. A README file in  
> http://kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/ pointing people to  
> those docs would be nice. And/Or make it item #1 in the FAQ. The FAQ  
> and README files are the first two files that I look for when I go  
> looking for software on a website.

kernel.org is not a "website" per say, but rather a collection of files
on a ftp server that happens to have web access :)

> Unless covered by the docs, an explanation of the files in the  
> directory should be included in the README file also.

The README within the udev tarball that you didn't read?  :)
Patches gladly accepted.

Anyway, udev doesn't have a "real" website, as you have found out.
Anyone care to make one up and send it to me so I can add it to the
kernel.org site so stuff like this doesn't happen again?

thanks,

greg k-h


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Re: udev HOWTO. Where is it ?

[Mike Frysinger]

On Sunday 12 September 2004 01:09 pm, Greg KH wrote:
> Anyway, udev doesn't have a "real" website, as you have found out.
> Anyone care to make one up and send it to me so I can add it to the
> kernel.org site so stuff like this doesn't happen again?

would be nice to have a cool logo :)
-mike


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Re: udev HOWTO. Where is it ?

[John D. Coleman]

On 09/12/04 07:07:55, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Saturday 11 September 2004 03:19 pm, John D. Coleman wrote:
> > No I have not looked in the tarball. There wasn't any indication in
> the
> > udev-FAQ that I should look there for documentation.
> 
> if you download a tarball full of source where else would you expect
> documentation ?
> an included README or INSTALL file is _very_ common in source  
> tarballs
> -mike

Ouch. That burns a bit.

Um, in the tarball itself? In a seperate tarball, only via a website,  
or non-existant, or other. Take your pick.

There are several tarballs in that directory. All of which, to me  
anyway, have to do with udev. What tells me which ones to get? Should I  
get them all because they are there? Not unless I'm told to. Read my  
first message again this time carefully.

My first message to this mailing list was not meant to be a smart-ass,  
ticked-off remark and it wasn't. It was meant to point out to the  
developers that maybe they should "consider" giving somebody an EASILY  
found pointer.

Flame mode off. And I'm gone. Still subscribed though. Further flames  
will be ignored.

I read HOWTO-udev_for_dev. I don't have a program called "chkconfig",  
I'd have to study the scripts to see what they do, and I don't have a  
rc.sysinit file either so since I don't *need* udev now, I'll come back  
later. I'm tackling iptables for a while longer.

I hate it when packages have their 'make install' install scripts in my / 
etc/rc.d directory. They don't work and I have to clean up the  
directory afterwards. CUPS for example.

Thanks for the pointers Greg & Arun.


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Re: udev HOWTO. Where is it ?

[Mike Frysinger]

On Monday 13 September 2004 12:14 am, John D. Coleman wrote:
> I hate it when packages have their 'make install' install scripts in my /
> etc/rc.d directory. They don't work and I have to clean up the
> directory afterwards. CUPS for example.

i abuse DESTDIR for this purpose ...
`make install DESTDIR=$HOME/tmp/`
then i can rip out the files that i'll never use ... pretty sure the udev 
install supports this but dont quote me on it ;)

at any rate, i think we all agree that a nice little website with an 
about/howto {install,use} would be good ... just no one seems to want to 
write said website ...
-mike


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Re: udev HOWTO. Where is it ?

[Greg KH]

On Sun, Sep 12, 2004 at 01:17:20PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Sunday 12 September 2004 01:09 pm, Greg KH wrote:
> > Anyway, udev doesn't have a "real" website, as you have found out.
> > Anyone care to make one up and send it to me so I can add it to the
> > kernel.org site so stuff like this doesn't happen again?
> 
> would be nice to have a cool logo :)

Heh, yes it would.  Anyone care to draw one?

greg k-h


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Re: udev HOWTO. Where is it ?

[Greg KH]

On Mon, Sep 13, 2004 at 12:14:44AM -0400, John D. Coleman wrote:
> 
> I read HOWTO-udev_for_dev. I don't have a program called "chkconfig",  
> I'd have to study the scripts to see what they do, and I don't have a  
> rc.sysinit file either so since I don't *need* udev now, I'll come back  
> later. I'm tackling iptables for a while longer.

That file was for intregrating into a old version of Fedora.  I doubt it
still applies to the recent versions as udev is now included in
FC3-test.

Actually all distros now seem to support udev already.  So I recommend
just upgrading to the latest version of your favorite one and using the
verison of udev that's included in it.  

As /dev management is pretty tricky to get just right in the startup
scripts, I'd rely on your distro to get it correct.

And if you're using a distro that doesn't support udev in it's latest
2.6 release, please let me know and I'll go bug them :)

> I hate it when packages have their 'make install' install scripts in my / 
> etc/rc.d directory. They don't work and I have to clean up the  
> directory afterwards. CUPS for example.

What distro are you using that the included /etc/inid.d/ file doesn't
work properly for?

thanks,

greg k-h


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