udev vs. devfs

udev vs. devfs

[Pelle Svensson]

Hi,

I would say that devfs is a clear winner compare to udev when it comes
to it's simplicity in the setup. Just mark devfs in the kernel config and
mount it.

When it comes to udev the lack of documentation left you in a try/error
loop.

Can't somebody tell me what I need to get udev up and running from scratch.

I'm building a ARM system with 2.6 kernel from scratch so I only need the
most basic stuff to get a 'dev' list.

/Pelle

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Re: udev vs. devfs

[Vassilis Virvilis]

Pelle Svensson wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
[snip]
> Can't somebody tell me what I need to get udev up and running from scratch.
> 
> I'm building a ARM system with 2.6 kernel from scratch so I only need the
> most basic stuff to get a 'dev' list.
> 

Halo,

I don't if it will help you but it mostly works for my setup so you may give it a try.

Assuming you are booting correctly and
0) you have the latest kernel >= 2.6.11.rc4 and the latest udev (git versions)
1) you have mount your root partition
2) you have mount /proc /sys

in your init
1) run start_udev (it is distributed with udev sources)
2) later run coldplug
---- coldplug -----
#!/bin/sh

BUSSES="pci usb";

for bus in $BUSSES; do
   for DEV in /sys/bus/$bus/devices/*; do
      echo -n "Checking bus $bus device $DEV...";
      if [ -L "$DEV" -a -f $DEV/modalias ]; then
         echo "modprobing";
         modprobe `cat $DEV/modalias`;
      else
         echo "no";
      fi
   done;
done;
---------------

and of course have a hotplug handy in /sbin/hotplug
----------- /sbin/hotplug ------------
#!/bin/sh

#echo "*** hotplug 'subsystem=$1' 'MODALIAS=$MODALIAS' 'DEVPATH=$DEVPATH' ***" > /dev/kmsg;
if [ -n "$MODALIAS" -a ! -L /sys/$DEVPATH/driver ]; then
    echo "*** hotplug 'subsystem=$1' 'MODALIAS=$MODALIAS' 'DEVPATH=$DEVPATH' ***" > /dev/kmsg;
    modprobe -v $MODALIAS > /dev/kmsg;
fi

if [ -n "$DEVPATH" -a -d "/sys" ]; then
    #echo "udevsend $1 -------------" > /dev/kmsg;
    /sbin/udevsend $1;
fi

if everything goes out well you can comment out the /dev/kmesg redirection.
Oh and in my /dev I have already /dev/kmsg /dev/null /dev/console.

I am sure somebody will popup with a better script/procedure or something
but anyway here are my 2dr.

.bill


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Re: udev vs. devfs

[Greg KH]

On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 05:07:49PM +0200, Pelle Svensson wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I would say that devfs is a clear winner compare to udev when it comes
> to it's simplicity in the setup. Just mark devfs in the kernel config and
> mount it.

Great, glad you like it, unfortunatly you are pretty much alone, and
devfs is going away in a week or so (see patches on lkml for details.)

> When it comes to udev the lack of documentation left you in a try/error
> loop.
> 
> Can't somebody tell me what I need to get udev up and running from scratch.

What is missing from the current udev documentation that you have
questions about?  udev setups depend on the distro you are using.  What
distro are you using?

> I'm building a ARM system with 2.6 kernel from scratch so I only need the
> most basic stuff to get a 'dev' list.

And the HOWTO-udev_for_dev file wasn't enough to get you up and running?

thanks,

greg k-h


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Re: udev vs. devfs

[David Brownell]

On Thursday 16 June 2005 8:07 am, Pelle Svensson wrote:

> Can't somebody tell me what I need to get udev up and running from scratch.
> 
> I'm building a ARM system with 2.6 kernel from scratch so I only need the
> most basic stuff to get a 'dev' list.

The latest buildroot, plus the br2-udev-v2.patch from 

  http://bugs.uclibc.org/view.php?id)0

Works fine for me on a couple ARM systems, modulo hotplug not behaving
for anything yet (much less CF cards, but that's coming soon).  I've
told it to use gcc 3.4.3 FWIW; also module-init-tools instead of the
stuff built-in to busybox, since I want modprobe $MODALIAS and such.

- Dave


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Re: udev vs. devfs

[Pelle Svensson]

Hi greg,


First of all, It works now!

What I missed was that sysfs has to be mounted.
There where some minor errors in rc.sysinit, start_udev and fstab.

I think it should say somthing about what has to be in place in the 
HOWTO-udev_for_dev
to get udev up and running.

Something like:

----

1. Kernel has to be compiled with sysfs
2. edit /etc/fstab and add a line for sysfs

none /sys sysfs defaults 0 0

3. edit rc.sysinit and add

mount /sys

----

I don't use any dist and that is probaly the reason why some general stuff 
was not
in place..

/Thanks
Pelle




>From: Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>
>To: Pelle Svensson <pelle2004@hotmail.com>
>CC: linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Subject: Re: udev vs. devfs
>Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:37:06 -0700
>
>On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 05:07:49PM +0200, Pelle Svensson wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I would say that devfs is a clear winner compare to udev when it comes
> > to it's simplicity in the setup. Just mark devfs in the kernel config 
>and
> > mount it.
>
>Great, glad you like it, unfortunatly you are pretty much alone, and
>devfs is going away in a week or so (see patches on lkml for details.)
>
> > When it comes to udev the lack of documentation left you in a try/error
> > loop.
> >
> > Can't somebody tell me what I need to get udev up and running from 
>scratch.
>
>What is missing from the current udev documentation that you have
>questions about?  udev setups depend on the distro you are using.  What
>distro are you using?
>
> > I'm building a ARM system with 2.6 kernel from scratch so I only need 
>the
> > most basic stuff to get a 'dev' list.
>
>And the HOWTO-udev_for_dev file wasn't enough to get you up and running?
>
>thanks,
>
>greg k-h

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Re: udev vs. devfs

[Kay Sievers]

On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 02:42:24PM +0200, Pelle Svensson wrote:
> First of all, It works now!
> 
> What I missed was that sysfs has to be mounted.
> There where some minor errors in rc.sysinit, start_udev and fstab.
> 
> I think it should say somthing about what has to be in place in the 
> HOWTO-udev_for_dev
> to get udev up and running.
> 
> Something like:
> 
> ----
> 
> 1. Kernel has to be compiled with sysfs
> 2. edit /etc/fstab and add a line for sysfs
> 
> none /sys sysfs defaults 0 0
> 
> 3. edit rc.sysinit and add
> 
> mount /sys
> 
>----

You should have looked in the README:

  - Make sure sysfs is mounted.  udev will figure out where sysfs is mounted,
    but the traditional place for it is at /sys.  You can mount it by hand
    by running:
      mount -t sysfs none /sys

Kay


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Re: udev vs. devfs

[Pelle Svensson]

You are right.

But on the other hand I missed when Greg guided me to HOWTP-udev_for_dev.
Doc files can be of 2 kinds short or long. When you run in to the 'wall' a 
very
long basic step by step which do not leave anything out is better.

/Pelle

>From: Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org>
>To: Pelle Svensson <pelle2004@hotmail.com>
>CC: greg@kroah.com, linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Subject: Re: udev vs. devfs
>Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:58:41 +0200
>
>On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 02:42:24PM +0200, Pelle Svensson wrote:
> > First of all, It works now!
> >
> > What I missed was that sysfs has to be mounted.
> > There where some minor errors in rc.sysinit, start_udev and fstab.
> >
> > I think it should say somthing about what has to be in place in the
> > HOWTO-udev_for_dev
> > to get udev up and running.
> >
> > Something like:
> >
> > ----
> >
> > 1. Kernel has to be compiled with sysfs
> > 2. edit /etc/fstab and add a line for sysfs
> >
> > none /sys sysfs defaults 0 0
> >
> > 3. edit rc.sysinit and add
> >
> > mount /sys
> >
> >----
>
>You should have looked in the README:
>
>   - Make sure sysfs is mounted.  udev will figure out where sysfs is 
>mounted,
>     but the traditional place for it is at /sys.  You can mount it by hand
>     by running:
>       mount -t sysfs none /sys
>
>Kay
>
>
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Re: udev vs. devfs

[Greg KH]

On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 02:42:24PM +0200, Pelle Svensson wrote:
> 
> First of all, It works now!

So is that an appology for comparing udev to devfs?  :)

> What I missed was that sysfs has to be mounted.
> There where some minor errors in rc.sysinit, start_udev and fstab.

Like Kay said, the README already stated that.  If you don't read all
the documentation we provide, it's a bit rude to complain...

greg k-h


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Re: udev vs. devfs

[David Brownell]

On Thursday 16 June 2005 10:10 am, Vassilis Virvilis wrote:
> ...
> I am sure somebody will popup with a better script/procedure or something
> but anyway here are my 2dr.

It hit the spot for me, pretty much.  Here are my updated versions;
debug stuff removed (for some reason it wedged), added support for
some PCMCIA and MMC special cases, and a bit of doc.  So it's worked
for me hotplugging USB, PCMCIA [1], and MMC ... though I've not yet
tried hooking in code to mount those removable flash cards.

The PCMCIA hotplug is using the patches, now sitting in the MM tree,
that will likely be merged early in 2.6.13 ... if they provided
the "modalias" attribute, then "coldplug" wouldn't even need that
helper program from the new pcmcia utils package [2].

I think we need a stripped down and turnkey hotplug-and-udev setup
starting real soon now, at least for use with embedded hardware,
and these scripts could be a reasonable start.

- Dave

[1] Though CompactFlash memory cards wouldn't bind properly through
    the IDE stack.  Seems to be an issue with the new PCMCIA hotplug
    stuff, since non-memory CF cards worked fine.

[2] http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/pcmcia/pcmcia.html



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Re: udev vs. devfs

[David Brownell]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 335 bytes --]

On Friday 17 June 2005 12:21 pm, David Brownell wrote:
> On Thursday 16 June 2005 10:10 am, Vassilis Virvilis wrote:
> > ...
> > I am sure somebody will popup with a better script/procedure or something
> > but anyway here are my 2dr.
> 
> It hit the spot for me, pretty much.  Here are my updated versions;
> 

Whoops, HERE they are.

[-- Attachment #2: coldplug --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 1040 bytes --]

#!/bin/ash
#
# "coldplug" ensures every hardware device present has its driver loaded,
# even if its hotplug event was ignored since it was too early in system
# startup for hotplug processing to work.  Loading the driver will cause
# another hotplug event that will lead to /dev node creation.
#
# Run this during system startup shortly after /dev has been initialized
# using udevstart.

if [ ! -d /sys/devices ]
then
	exit 1
fi

# "new style" kernel hotplug has module-init-tools do the thinking
cd /sys/devices
for DIR in $(find . -type d)
do
	if [ -f $DIR/modalias -a ! -f $DIR/driver ]
	then
		modprobe -q $(cat $DIR/modalias)
	fi
done

# FIXME will MODULE_ALIAS("name.*") work for "name.3" devices?
cd /sys/devices/platform
for DEV in *
do
	if [ ! -L $DEV/driver ]
	then
		# some platform drivers will need a MODULE_ALIAS()
		modprobe -q $DEV
	fi
done

# REVISIT pcmcia doesn't yet have "modalias" files
if [ -d /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices ]
then
	cd /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices
	for F in *
	do
		modprobe -q $(pcmcia-modalias $F)
	done
fi


[-- Attachment #3: hotplug --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 806 bytes --]

#!/bin/ash
#
# "hotplug" initializes devices ... hardware drivers get modprobed and
# create class devices.  then later udev handles /dev node creation and
# invokes programs that make userspace aware of the new device node.
#
# install as /sbin/hotplug

if [ ! -d /sys ]
then
	exit 1
fi
cd /sys

if [ "$ACTION" = "add" -a "$SUBSYSTEM" = "mmc" ]
then
	# MMC doesn't support modalias yet, but mmc_block is
	# the only useful option until Linux gets SDIO support.
	MODALIAS=mmc_block
fi

if [ "$ACTION" = "add" -a -n "$MODALIAS" -a ! -L $DEVPATH/driver ]
then
	# REVISIT:  pcmcia currently needs special cases here,
	# for non-static mapped sockets and many CF memory cards.

	# most important subsystems now have $MODALIAS support:
	modprobe -q $MODALIAS
fi

if [ -n "$DEVPATH" ]
then
	/sbin/udevsend $1
fi

Re: udev vs. devfs

[Pelle Svensson]

Hi,

Not I'm not complaning, just say that for me it was more
complicated to get udev up and working than devfs.

Thanks for your help and a good program!

/Pelle


>From: Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>
>To: Pelle Svensson <pelle2004@hotmail.com>
>CC: linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Subject: Re: udev vs. devfs
>Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:05:11 -0700
>
>On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 02:42:24PM +0200, Pelle Svensson wrote:
> >
> > First of all, It works now!
>
>So is that an appology for comparing udev to devfs?  :)
>
> > What I missed was that sysfs has to be mounted.
> > There where some minor errors in rc.sysinit, start_udev and fstab.
>
>Like Kay said, the README already stated that.  If you don't read all
>the documentation we provide, it's a bit rude to complain...
>
>greg k-h
>
>
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Re: udev vs. devfs

[Vassilis Virvilis]

David Brownell wrote:
> On Friday 17 June 2005 12:21 pm, David Brownell wrote:
> 
>>On Thursday 16 June 2005 10:10 am, Vassilis Virvilis wrote:
>>
>>>...
>>>I am sure somebody will popup with a better script/procedure or something
>>>but anyway here are my 2dr.
>>

>>It hit the spot for me, pretty much.  Here are my updated versions;
>>
David,
Sorry for the long delay and glad that worked for you.

Some questions though...
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> #!/bin/ash
> #
> # "coldplug" ensures every hardware device present has its driver loaded,
> # even if its hotplug event was ignored since it was too early in system
> # startup for hotplug processing to work.  Loading the driver will cause
> # another hotplug event that will lead to /dev node creation.
> #
> # Run this during system startup shortly after /dev has been initialized
> # using udevstart.
> 
> if [ ! -d /sys/devices ]
> then
> 	exit 1
> fi

       good.

> 
> # "new style" kernel hotplug has module-init-tools do the thinking
> cd /sys/devices
> for DIR in $(find . -type d)
> do
> 	if [ -f $DIR/modalias -a ! -f $DIR/driver ]
> 	then
> 		modprobe -q $(cat $DIR/modalias)
> 	fi
> done
this I don't like. After demorgan that reads
  	if [ ! -f $DIR/modalias -o -f $DIR/driver ]
  		modprobe -q $(cat $DIR/modalias)
  	fi
which seems wrong

On other complain. I am using initramfs and klibc. So `find` it's out
of the question for me at least. I am open to suggestions.
Nop ls `is` a don't have either. If you have any ideas I am all
ears...

> 
> # FIXME will MODULE_ALIAS("name.*") work for "name.3" devices?
> cd /sys/devices/platform
> for DEV in *
> do
> 	if [ ! -L $DEV/driver ]
> 	then
> 		# some platform drivers will need a MODULE_ALIAS()
> 		modprobe -q $DEV
> 	fi
> done

Doh! so that's why the damn thing was not autoloading my mouse.
It is under /sys/devices/platform/i8042/. Good catch!!!

Question: Doesn't catch it through the proper directory traversing?

[snip pcmcia]

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> #!/bin/ash
> #
> # "hotplug" initializes devices ... hardware drivers get modprobed and
> # create class devices.  then later udev handles /dev node creation and
> # invokes programs that make userspace aware of the new device node.
> #
> # install as /sbin/hotplug
> 
> if [ ! -d /sys ]
> then
> 	exit 1
> fi
> cd /sys
> 
> if [ "$ACTION" = "add" -a "$SUBSYSTEM" = "mmc" ]
> then
> 	# MMC doesn't support modalias yet, but mmc_block is
> 	# the only useful option until Linux gets SDIO support.
> 	MODALIAS=mmc_block
> fi
> 
> if [ "$ACTION" = "add" -a -n "$MODALIAS" -a ! -L $DEVPATH/driver ]
> then
> 	# REVISIT:  pcmcia currently needs special cases here,
> 	# for non-static mapped sockets and many CF memory cards.
> 
> 	# most important subsystems now have $MODALIAS support:
> 	modprobe -q $MODALIAS
> fi
> 
> if [ -n "$DEVPATH" ]
> then
> 	/sbin/udevsend $1
> fi

Good grace! It never occured to me to only run modpobe only if ACTION = add.

MMC is memory card? with IDE interface? Should work, no? Do you
have/had problems with them?

    .bill



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Re: udev vs. devfs

[Vassilis Virvilis]

david-b@pacbell.net wrote:
> That transform is wrong, yes, but the original was right.

Indeed. The transform was wrong. I had it right but I copied
it wrong. Still I can't understand it however (the purpose of the test).

> Yet you have "ash" and "modprobe"??  "find" is just a busybox option.
> If you must, you can implement a recursive directory traversal with
> recursive shell functions and "echo".
> 

Yes. It's a klibc environment. ash comes with it, modprobe ported to klibc.
Patches are on klibc mailing list.

    .bill


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