a3load.hex

a3load.hex

[william baroniunas]

Hi.

I am new to this list, so I'm hoping that I can find
someone to help me with a question regarding the
a3load.hex source file found in the hotplug
package(s).

In this file, the Cypress copyright prohibits
distribution of the file unless it is distributed with
a Cypress USB product. It is not freely distributable.

How are folks in the Linux community handling this
issue?  Are there hotplug distributions that have
extracted this file, as well as the ezusb functions? 
Or has everyone simply ignored the copyright?  To keep
open source as real open source, it should ONLY
include files that apply to a GPL-like license. 
Anything short of that could spawn litigation issues
in the future.

If anyone has a comment, please respond.

Regards,
Bill Baroniunas 


		
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Re: a3load.hex

[Greg KH]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 06:46:16AM -0700, william baroniunas wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I am new to this list, so I'm hoping that I can find
> someone to help me with a question regarding the
> a3load.hex source file found in the hotplug
> package(s).
> 
> In this file, the Cypress copyright prohibits
> distribution of the file unless it is distributed with
> a Cypress USB product. It is not freely distributable.
> 
> How are folks in the Linux community handling this
> issue?

No distro that I know of, distributes this file.  Do you know of any?

We got approval from Cypress to add it to the package, as the file
really isn't useful at all without a Cypress processor to run on. 

And the copyright says:
	# Cypress Semiconductor Corporation hereby grants a copyright
	# license to use or redistribute this firmware image, in text or
	# binary form as required, only in conjunction with devices
	# using a Cypress USB microcontroller.  Every copy in any form
	# of the firmware shall include Cypress copyright legends.

So it is ok to bundle it, right?

But I think you need to take it up with the individual distros that are
distributing the file, if you still object.

> Are there hotplug distributions that have
> extracted this file, as well as the ezusb functions? 

I don't know, have you checked?

> Or has everyone simply ignored the copyright?  To keep
> open source as real open source, it should ONLY
> include files that apply to a GPL-like license. 

The license must be the same for files that are linked together.  This
file isn't linked into any other one, right?  So it should be fine.

> Anything short of that could spawn litigation issues
> in the future.

Litigation from whom?  Cypress who gave us the file to redistribute?  I
don't think so :)

thanks,

greg k-h


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Re: a3load.hex

[Adrian McMenamin]

On Fri, 2005-10-14 at 06:46 -0700, william baroniunas wrote:

> 
> How are folks in the Linux community handling this
> issue?  Are there hotplug distributions that have
> extracted this file, as well as the ezusb functions? 
> Or has everyone simply ignored the copyright?  To keep
> open source as real open source, it should ONLY
> include files that apply to a GPL-like license. 

I think you'll find that one of the principal uses of hotplug is to
allow the distribution of firmware with distros.

For instance, I have some firmware for the device I am working on which
is BSD licenced. In Linux 2.4 all this was whacked into a header in the
kernel and distributed under the GPL. Although the source was freely
available, GPL purists could have argued it was tainting the kernel (in
fact there are not enough Dreamcast users to make an issue of this).

However, hotplug allows me to distribute the firmware in userspace and
keep the kernel GPL-pure.

In other cases the firmware won't even be available on BSD-type terms.
In that case if we followed your advice (on licences NOT copyright by
the way) we'd have nothing.

As an aside: is the reply-to header not set on this list deliberately?



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Re: a3load.hex

[william baroniunas]

Thanks for you reply.

I am not actually giving advice, but seeking it. My
concern is that there are many distributions that
include this module, and unless we get Cypress to
rewrite their copyright, that leaves the door open for
litigation.  I didn't mean to imply that we should
only use the GPL.  There are quite a number of open
source compatible licenses which developers need to be
made aware of so that we can avoid potential future
problems. 

I've contacted Cypress and their reply was that the
firmware is not freely distributed, and should only be
distributed with s/w written for one of their devices.

I am going to try to work with them to have this
license updated for the open source community, but
that's a long shot.  Just be aware that some distros
will start removing these files if they do not contain
real open source licenses.

--- Adrian McMenamin <adrian@mcmen.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> On Fri, 2005-10-14 at 06:46 -0700, william
> baroniunas wrote:
> 
> > 
> > How are folks in the Linux community handling this
> > issue?  Are there hotplug distributions that have
> > extracted this file, as well as the ezusb
> functions? 
> > Or has everyone simply ignored the copyright?  To
> keep
> > open source as real open source, it should ONLY
> > include files that apply to a GPL-like license. 
> 
> I think you'll find that one of the principal uses
> of hotplug is to
> allow the distribution of firmware with distros.
> 
> For instance, I have some firmware for the device I
> am working on which
> is BSD licenced. In Linux 2.4 all this was whacked
> into a header in the
> kernel and distributed under the GPL. Although the
> source was freely
> available, GPL purists could have argued it was
> tainting the kernel (in
> fact there are not enough Dreamcast users to make an
> issue of this).
> 
> However, hotplug allows me to distribute the
> firmware in userspace and
> keep the kernel GPL-pure.
> 
> In other cases the firmware won't even be available
> on BSD-type terms.
> In that case if we followed your advice (on licences
> NOT copyright by
> the way) we'd have nothing.
> 
> As an aside: is the reply-to header not set on this
> list deliberately?
> 
> 



		
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Re: a3load.hex

[Greg KH]

On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 06:14:51AM -0700, william baroniunas wrote:
> Thanks for you reply.
> 
> I am not actually giving advice, but seeking it. My
> concern is that there are many distributions that
> include this module,

Which distros are they?

> and unless we get Cypress to rewrite their copyright, that leaves the
> door open for litigation.

They did rewrite it.  Have you looked at the version in our cvs tree:
	http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/linux-hotplug/fxload/a3load.hex?rev=1.1&view=auto

What is wrong with that?

> I am going to try to work with them to have this
> license updated for the open source community, but
> that's a long shot.

David already did that.  See the above file please.

thanks,

greg k-h


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Re: a3load.hex

[Adrian McMenamin]

On Mon, 2005-10-17 at 11:45 -0700, Greg KH wrote:

> 
> They did rewrite it.  Have you looked at the version in our cvs tree:
> 	http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/linux-hotplug/fxload/a3load.hex?rev=1.1&view=auto
> 
> What is wrong with that?

Actually, their licence is rubbish in that it claims to over rule
statute law. I cannot believe their is a jurisdiction on the planet that
allows some lawyer working for a hardware company set the decisions of
their legislature at null and void!

The writers of the GPL specifically avoided this as they knew it could
be used to destroy the validity of the licence as a whole.



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Re: a3load.hex

[Darren Salt]

I demand that Greg KH may or may not have written...

> On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 06:14:51AM -0700, william baroniunas wrote:
>> I am not actually giving advice, but seeking it. My concern is that there
>> are many distributions that include this module,
> Which distros are they?
>> and unless we get Cypress to rewrite their copyright, that leaves the door
>> open for litigation.

> They did rewrite it.  Have you looked at the version in our cvs tree:
> 	http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/linux-hotplug/fxload/a3load.hex?rev=1.1&view=auto

> What is wrong with that?

"... licence to use or redistribute this firmware image ... in conjunction
with devices using a Cypress USB microcontroller".

AFAICS, that gives two possibilities: use with appropriate hardware, and
redistribution with appropriate hardware. It doesn't appear to cover
redistribution without appropriate hardware (for eventual use on appropriate
hardware), which is what's required here.

I suspect that s/in conjunction/for conjunction/ may be enough to close the
door.

(Disclaimer: IANAL.)

[snip] [don't cc to me]
-- 
| Darren Salt | nr. Ashington, | d youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk
| Debian,     | Northumberland | s zap,tartarus,org
| RISC OS     | Toon Army      | @
|   We've got Souness, we don't want him

Don't rewrite bad code; patch it.


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