Re: Trying to compile udev + libsysfs

Re: Trying to compile udev + libsysfs

[Greg KH]

On Thu, Jan 05, 2006 at 03:05:51PM +0100, Wolfgang Klein wrote:
> 
> I'd like to update udev on my SuSE 9.2 in order to be able to use a more
> recent kernel version. Since there is no precompiled package for my
> system newer than 0.5, I will have to built it myself.
> 
> I downloaded udev-079.tar.gz and the compilation was ok. Then I used
> "checkinstall" to create a rpm-package. When I tried to install that
> package I was told
> 
> error: Failed dependencies:
>         libsysfs.so.1 is needed by (installed) 3ddiag-0.722-2.1
>         libsysfs.so.1 is needed by (installed) yast2-core-2.10.16-2.1
>         libsysfs.so.1 is needed by (installed) hwinfo-9.31-1.1
>         libsysfs.so.1 is needed by (installed) sysconfig-0.31.3-17.4
>         libsysfs.so.1 is needed by (installed) hotplugctl-0.08-266.1
> 
> That's funny because the source of libsysfs is included in the package
> udev-079.tar.gz but obviously "make" ignores it.

No, it isn't ignored, but it is built into udev, instead of separately.

> Which command line option do I have to use so that libsysfs will also be
> build when "make" is called?

You can't do that, SuSE patched the udev version for 9.2 to create a
separate libsysfs version.

I wouldn't try to mess around with this at all, if you want to use a new
udev, please upgrade to SuSE 10, which has a much newer version.

good luck,

greg k-h


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id\x16865&op=click
_______________________________________________
Linux-hotplug-devel mailing list  http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net
Linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-hotplug-devel

Re: Trying to compile udev + libsysfs

[Greg KH]

On Thu, Jan 05, 2006 at 08:50:11PM +0100, Wolfgang Klein wrote:
> Greg KH wrote:
> 
> >
> > You can't do that, SuSE patched the udev version for 9.2 to create a
> > separate libsysfs version.
> 
> Is there any chance that libsysfs can be built separately, again?

With the current udev package?  No.  In fact, it's about to just be
ripped out entirely from udev, we've had a lot of problems with it in
the past :(

> If so: can this be done by someone who isn't a fulltime programmer, eg:
> me? ;-)

No, I can't even do it :)

> If not, how about creating a dummy-rpm that will only contain one file
> (libsysfs.so.1), to fulfill the dependencies for those few programms
> that still need it?

Good luck doing that :)

Why do you want to upgrade udev?  It's such a low-level part of a Linux
distribution, I would not suggest upgrading it unless you really know
what you are doing.  I'd really suggest just upgrading your whole
distro.

> > I wouldn't try to mess around with this at all, if you want to use a
> > new udev, please upgrade to SuSE 10, which has a much newer version.
> 
> When I will upgrade my system (and I don't mean "*if* I will upgrade"!),
> it won't surely be another SuSE system, because I've had much to much
> trouble with SuSE's distributions.

Sorry to hear that.  But you might find that the 10.0 release is a lot
nicer in regards to udev usage, now that SuSE has a few of us working
for them :)

If not, then I know that RedHat Fedora, Gentoo, and Debian all have
up-to-date udev support working just fine.

Good luck,

greg k-h


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id\x16865&op=click
_______________________________________________
Linux-hotplug-devel mailing list  http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net
Linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-hotplug-devel

Re: Trying to compile udev + libsysfs

[Gioele Barabucci]

On Friday 06 January 2006 00:25, Greg KH wrote:
> > Is there any chance that libsysfs can be built separately, again?
> With the current udev package?  No.  In fact, it's about to just be
> ripped out entirely from udev, we've had a lot of problems with it in
> the past :(
What is going to be ripped out from udev? the libsysfs files or support for 
sysfs via libsysfs?

--
Gioele <dev@gioelebarabucci.com>


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id\x16865&op=click
_______________________________________________
Linux-hotplug-devel mailing list  http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net
Linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-hotplug-devel

Re: Trying to compile udev + libsysfs

[Kay Sievers]

On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 09:10:58PM +0100, Gioele Barabucci wrote:
> On Friday 06 January 2006 00:25, Greg KH wrote:
> > > Is there any chance that libsysfs can be built separately, again?
> > With the current udev package?  No.  In fact, it's about to just be
> > ripped out entirely from udev, we've had a lot of problems with it in
> > the past :(
> What is going to be ripped out from udev? the libsysfs files or support for 
> sysfs via libsysfs?

Both.

Kay


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id\x16865&op=click
_______________________________________________
Linux-hotplug-devel mailing list  http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net
Linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-hotplug-devel

Re: Trying to compile udev + libsysfs

[Greg KH]

On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 09:56:30AM +0100, Wolfgang Klein wrote:
> Greg KH wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Why do you want to upgrade udev?  It's such a low-level part of a Linux
> 
> Because without upgrading it I still would be stuck with kernel version
> 2.6.10 (or 11?) and without upgrading udev the SuSE system refused to
> run a newer kernel version. The "old" kernel version caused some trouble
> concerning my hardware, eg: suspending the system. And let's not forget
> security issues.
> 
> Upgrading to udev 058 I was finally able to use kernel 2.6.14 and now I
> want to use 2.6.15, but the changelog says that at least udev 071 will
> be needed for that.

Ok, that makes sense.  Problem is, it's hard to upgrade kernel versions
these days on distros that are not set up to handle it.  9.2 wasn't the
best example of a release that could handle updated kernels (to be fair,
that's what I use on one of my boxes, and I got it working, but it was
hard...)

> > Sorry to hear that.  But you might find that the 10.0 release is a lot
> > nicer in regards to udev usage, now that SuSE has a few of us working
> > for them :)
> 
> That's what I am hoping for. ;-)
> 
> Before I updated to SuSE 9.2 I was using 9.0 and I remember that this
> distri wouldn't even run a kernel newer than 2.6.4 or something. So I
> had no chance to use hardware features that require a recent kernel version.
> 
> I don't want to be forced to update my entire system any time I just
> want to install a new kernel version. That's why I am still looking for
> a distribution that will allow me to use it for more than a year and
> that will be useable with recent kernel version in the future as long as
> possible. Do you think SuSE 10 will be able to be such a system?

I don't know.  Some things are getting more and more tightly bound to
speific kernel versions in userspace, as we try to intergrate things
better (which makes users happier.)  In general, users do not ever
upgrade their kernels on their own, but rely on the disto to support
them.  This is the case for the SuSE 10.0 release, and almost all others
(fedora 3 and older, etc.)

But some distros are better able to accept updated kernels, although you
loose some intregration and increase the complexity of parts of the
system.  OpenSuSE, Fedora 4, Debian unstable, Gentoo, etc. are all
examples of distros that can handle updated kernels easier.

Also, you don't want to use udev at all, feel free to upgrade your
kernel, and switch back to a static /dev.

Hope this helps,

greg k-h


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id\x16865&op=click
_______________________________________________
Linux-hotplug-devel mailing list  http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net
Linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-hotplug-devel

Re: Trying to compile udev + libsysfs

[linas]

On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 01:33:20PM +0100, Wolfgang Klein was heard to remark:
>
> Like I told you before: if I waited for SuSE to update the kernel
> version I would still be stuck with kernel 2.6.4 or something.

2.6.5 actually. However, that kernel has hundreds of patches applied,
including backports from a variety of stuff that went into 2.6.6 
thorugh 2.6.15.  The other potential advantage is that (for the
hardware that I work with) it gets far more testing than the mainline 
kernel. Specifically, there are entire depts of people here at IBM
whose only job is to stress-test the SUSE kernels into oblivion on 
the entire spectrum of IBM hardware, old and new. By contrast, any 
testing of mainline is haphazard, being the effort of a few kernel 
developers hacking on a few boxes.  e.g.  right now, I'm working on 
a bug in today's mainline, which was never a bug in SUSE. 

I suspect the same is true for other big hardware vendors (HP, etc)
but probably not for misc retail white-box PC's.

--linas




-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id\x16865&op=click
_______________________________________________
Linux-hotplug-devel mailing list  http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net
Linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-hotplug-devel

Re: Trying to compile udev + libsysfs

[Greg KH]

On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 11:52:45AM -0600, linas wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 01:33:20PM +0100, Wolfgang Klein was heard to remark:
> >
> > Like I told you before: if I waited for SuSE to update the kernel
> > version I would still be stuck with kernel 2.6.4 or something.
> 
> 2.6.5 actually. However, that kernel has hundreds of patches applied,
> including backports from a variety of stuff that went into 2.6.6 
> thorugh 2.6.15.

That's for the SLES kernel, not the 9.2 kernel, which is being discussed
here :)

thanks,

greg k-h


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id\x16865&op=click
_______________________________________________
Linux-hotplug-devel mailing list  http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net
Linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-hotplug-devel

Re: Trying to compile udev + libsysfs

[Greg KH]

On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 01:33:20PM +0100, Wolfgang Klein wrote:
> Greg KH wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> > Ok, that makes sense.  Problem is, it's hard to upgrade kernel versions
> > these days on distros that are not set up to handle it.  9.2 wasn't the
> > best example of a release that could handle updated kernels (to be fair,
> 
> And that's why I believe that everything related to the kernel should
> not be in the hand of the distributors. Building a distro around a
> specific kernel version that most likely will not run with a different
> kernel version later is a sick think. This is done in Redmond-OS, but it
> should not be done in Linux. A Linux-distribution should be independent
> of the kernel version.

Great, I'm glad you feel this way.  Unfortunatly we did that for about
12 years, and people complained that they wanted more features and
intregration, like other operating systems provided them.

Things like networkmanager, udev, alsa, dri/drm, and others would not be
possible without a tight tie between the kernel and userspace programs.

But I could be wrong, and would gladly accept patches to the kernel for
sysfs/udev related things, or other parts of the kernel, to make this
not so tightly bound :)

(hint, if you look at the future design path for sysfs and the driver
model, it handles keeping userspace programs from being forced to
upgrade, barring any stupid bugs in the userspace programs, which have
been the reason for having to upgrade udev in the past...)

> > that's what I use on one of my boxes, and I got it working, but it was
> > hard...)
> 
> Could you please tell me what you did to achieve a working system? Maybe
> I will be able to do the same.

from what I remember, I stripped out the libsysfs-dependant packages and
deleted udev and just used a tarball and hacked up the init scripts.

But I wouldn't recommend it for anyone, and it's not the box I do my
main kernel and udev development on, it's for other tasks for my day
job.

> > better (which makes users happier.)  In general, users do not ever
> > upgrade their kernels on their own, but rely on the disto to support
> > them.  This is the case for the SuSE 10.0 release, and almost all others
> 
> Like I told you before: if I waited for SuSE to update the kernel
> version I would still be stuck with kernel 2.6.4 or something.

No, not if you upgraded to 10.0, right?

> > Also, you don't want to use udev at all, feel free to upgrade your
> > kernel, and switch back to a static /dev.
> 
> Is there any HowTo to this or could you tell me how to do it? What would
> be the (dis)advantages? What problems could arise from that?

Sorry, I don't know where to point you here, you are on your own...

good luck.

greg k-h


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id\x16865&op=click
_______________________________________________
Linux-hotplug-devel mailing list  http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net
Linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-hotplug-devel