[PATCH] optical_gen

[PATCH] optical_gen

[VMiklos]

hi

(resending this with a PATCH subject, in case that would be a problem)

http://frugalware.org/~vmiklos/patches/udev-096-optical_gen2.diff

optical_gen is an udev callout to generate persistent rules for
optical devices. it would be good to include it in udev since with
time more and more distros use persistent rules and a custom solution
for each distro is.. not so good :)

please comment, apply, reject or something :)

udv / greetings,
VMiklos

-- 
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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Greg KH]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 07:51:52PM +0200, VMiklos wrote:
> hi
> 
> (resending this with a PATCH subject, in case that would be a problem)
> 
> http://frugalware.org/~vmiklos/patches/udev-096-optical_gen2.diff
> 
> optical_gen is an udev callout to generate persistent rules for
> optical devices. it would be good to include it in udev since with
> time more and more distros use persistent rules and a custom solution
> for each distro is.. not so good :)
> 
> please comment, apply, reject or something :)

Shouldn't you be locking the rule file and not /sys instead?  It seems a
bit "odd" that you would want to lock such a global directory :)

thanks,

greg k-h

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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Kay Sievers]

On Mon, 2006-08-14 at 19:51 +0200, VMiklos wrote:
> (resending this with a PATCH subject, in case that would be a problem)
> 
> http://frugalware.org/~vmiklos/patches/udev-096-optical_gen2.diff
> 
> optical_gen is an udev callout to generate persistent rules for
> optical devices. it would be good to include it in udev since with
> time more and more distros use persistent rules and a custom solution
> for each distro is.. not so good :)
> 
> please comment, apply, reject or something :)

Hmm, when you started talking about that stuff, I asked you to look at
the various current implementations, to possible unify them, but you
just created another different implementation for the same old
problem. :)
That wasn't really what I had in mind, and seriously it doesn't make
sense to put this into the udev tree, if it isn't _commonly_ used.
Please start checking with the other guys, who all have their own
solution and see if we can get a unified version.

And why do we want this in C, seems all the other versions are just fine
with shell code?

Thanks,
Kay


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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[VMiklos]

2006/8/15, Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org>:
> It's pretty painful to carry stuff around in the tree I don't use, cause
> I need to support that, when it's in there. So I'm not willing to put

yes, that's why i try get an implementation in, in Frugalware we don't
want to use unsupported custom scripts.

> I don't know about the implementations in detail.

as far as i see, there is Debian's implementation (used by LFS, too)
and Mandriva has an implementation, too. should i paste here direct
links?

> No, we can include something that is commonly used and not something you
> or I decide to be the way to do it. Seems there are 3 version out there
> which are already tested. It shouldn't be too hard to make a single
> common version, right?

the Debian and the Mandriva version seems to be almost the same, just
written by different people. a "common" version would be just a copy
of one of them

> Again, it should be commonly used, or at least a common agreement that
> it will replace the current distro specific versions, before we ship it.

i know, i won't make too much sense, but as i already said my target
to get a version in and then use it, so i can promise Frugalware will
use it, be it whatever you say it's ok.

Alexander, Marco, Olivier, what do you think?

> Sorry for being that picky, don't take that personally, but you need to
> get together with the other guys and come up together with a common
> solution before we can ship it.

sorry for replying directly, forgot to cc to the list..

udv / greetings,
VMiklos

-- 
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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Marco d'Itri]

On Aug 15, VMiklos <vmiklos@gmail.com> wrote:

> Alexander, Marco, Olivier, what do you think?
I object to a C implementation when a shell one works as well.

-- 
ciao,
Marco

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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[VMiklos]

2006/8/15, Marco d'Itri <md@linux.it>:
> > Alexander, Marco, Olivier, what do you think?
> I object to a C implementation when a shell one works as well.

ok, then what implementation would be ok for you? as Kay said, we need
to agree to use _one_, then it could be included in the main tree

udv / greetings,
VMiklos

-- 
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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Marco d'Itri]

On Aug 15, VMiklos <vmiklos@gmail.com> wrote:

> ok, then what implementation would be ok for you? as Kay said, we need
> to agree to use _one_, then it could be included in the main tree
Do you think there is anything wrong with mine? :-)

-- 
ciao,
Marco

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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[VMiklos]

> > ok, then what implementation would be ok for you? as Kay said, we need
> > to agree to use _one_, then it could be included in the main tree
> Do you think there is anything wrong with mine? :-)

it's ok to me as long as it's ok to the others, too

udv / greetings,
VMiklos

--
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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Olivier Blin]

md@Linux.IT (Marco d'Itri) writes:

> On Aug 15, VMiklos <vmiklos@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ok, then what implementation would be ok for you? as Kay said, we need
>> to agree to use _one_, then it could be included in the main tree
> Do you think there is anything wrong with mine? :-)

Does it work fine if /etc is read-only when the rule is run?

In the Mandriva rules, rules are written in /dev/.udev/ if /etc isn't
writable, and then copied to /etc by the initscrips once /etc is
writable (implemented by Andrey Borzenkov).

Please see our scripts and rules here:
http://svn.mandriva.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/packages/cooker/udev/current/SOURCES/
62-create_persistent.rules
udev_cdrom_helper (main script, really short and simple)
udev_persistent_lib.sh (helpers shared with net scripts)
udev_copy_temp_rules (copy rules written in /dev/.udev to /etc)

By the way, if we're going to unify the scripts for CD naming, it
would be nice to do the same for network interface names.

-- 
Olivier Blin - Mandriva

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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Marco d'Itri]

On Aug 16, Olivier Blin <oblin@mandriva.com> wrote:

> Does it work fine if /etc is read-only when the rule is run?
Yes.

-- 
ciao,
Marco

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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Andrey Borzenkov]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wednesday 16 August 2006 12:52, Olivier Blin wrote:
> md@Linux.IT (Marco d'Itri) writes:
> > On Aug 15, VMiklos <vmiklos@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> ok, then what implementation would be ok for you? as Kay said, we need
> >> to agree to use _one_, then it could be included in the main tree
> >
> > Do you think there is anything wrong with mine? :-)
>
> Does it work fine if /etc is read-only when the rule is run?
>
> In the Mandriva rules, rules are written in /dev/.udev/ if /etc isn't
> writable, and then copied to /etc by the initscrips once /etc is
> writable (implemented by Andrey Borzenkov).
>

Actually I got the idea from Debian scripts :)
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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[VMiklos]

2006/8/15, Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org>:
> I need to support that, when it's in there. So I'm not willing to put
> something in, that isn't already used and has shown that it works for a
> lot of people.

as far as i see, the Debian scripts are okay for most

> Again, it should be commonly used, or at least a common agreement that
> it will replace the current distro specific versions, before we ship it.

so what about including the Debian ones so that every distro could
drop their own (same) implementations?

udv / greetings,
VMiklos

-- 
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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Alexander E. Patrakov]

VMiklos wrote:
> 2006/8/15, Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org>:
>   
>> I need to support that, when it's in there. So I'm not willing to put
>> something in, that isn't already used and has shown that it works for a
>> lot of people.
>>     
>
> as far as i see, the Debian scripts are okay for most
>
>   
>> Again, it should be commonly used, or at least a common agreement that
>> it will replace the current distro specific versions, before we ship it.
>>     
>
> so what about including the Debian ones so that every distro could
> drop their own (same) implementations?
>   
Debian scripts make a very specific expectation of the bootscript: 
namely, they expect that the udev-mtab bootscript moves the generated 
rules from the temporary location in /dev/shm to the final one in 
/etc/udev/rules.d. Some other systems work in a different way: they fail 
the entire uevent if /etc is mounted read-only in hope that a script 
will retrigger it later.

So:

 * Either the Debian script should be included as-is and its expectation 
about copying rules in the udev-mtab script has to be documented
 * Or the Debian script has to be made configurable in order to adapt to 
the two above-mentioned configurations (i.e., "copy rules" vs "retrigger 
uevents").

-- 
Alexander E. Patrakov

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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Piter PUNK]

Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
> Debian scripts make a very specific expectation of the bootscript: 
> namely, they expect that the udev-mtab bootscript moves the generated 
> rules from the temporary location in /dev/shm to the final one in 
> /etc/udev/rules.d. Some other systems work in a different way: they fail 
> the entire uevent if /etc is mounted read-only in hope that a script 
> will retrigger it later.

Slackware script does that. Fails in coldplug and wait the retrigger,
later. In retrigger it wrote the rules and make the links.

							Piter PUNK
-- 
     |        E-Mail: piterpk@terra.com.br        (personal)
    .|.               roberto.batista@ntux.com.br (professional)
    /V\
   // \\      UIN:116043354  Homepage:www.openslack.org/~piterpk
  /(   )\
   ^`~'^         ----> Slackware Linux - The Best One! <----
  #105432

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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Kay Sievers]

On Thu, 2006-08-17 at 18:52 +0600, Alexander E. Patrakov wrote:
> VMiklos wrote:
> > 2006/8/15, Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org>:
> >   
> >> I need to support that, when it's in there. So I'm not willing to put
> >> something in, that isn't already used and has shown that it works for a
> >> lot of people.
> >
> > as far as i see, the Debian scripts are okay for most
> >
> >> Again, it should be commonly used, or at least a common agreement that
> >> it will replace the current distro specific versions, before we ship it.    
> >
> > so what about including the Debian ones so that every distro could
> > drop their own (same) implementations?
> >   
> Debian scripts make a very specific expectation of the bootscript: 
> namely, they expect that the udev-mtab bootscript moves the generated 
> rules from the temporary location in /dev/shm to the final one in 
> /etc/udev/rules.d. Some other systems work in a different way: they fail 
> the entire uevent if /etc is mounted read-only in hope that a script 
> will retrigger it later.

>  * Either the Debian script should be included as-is and its expectation 
> about copying rules in the udev-mtab script has to be documented
>  * Or the Debian script has to be made configurable in order to adapt to 
> the two above-mentioned configurations (i.e., "copy rules" vs "retrigger 
> uevents").

Marco, how does Debian handle the other issues when it never triggers
failed events again? Like /usr or other part of the filesystem, or
whatever service not available at that time of the bootup?

The generic 'retrigger' to create the rules later, when /etc is writable
sounds much easier than having a special boot script logic for that
special case.

In an initramfs boot, which is the standard distro setup today, /etc is
writable at that point anyway, and we don't have that problem, right?

Kay


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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Marco d'Itri]

On Aug 18, Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org> wrote:

> Marco, how does Debian handle the other issues when it never triggers
> failed events again? Like /usr or other part of the filesystem, or
> whatever service not available at that time of the bootup?
Scripts fork and wait in the background until they can continue.
I still do not like the idea of restarting all failed events without
knowing why they failed.

> The generic 'retrigger' to create the rules later, when /etc is writable
> sounds much easier than having a special boot script logic for that
> special case.
Looks simple enough to me: :-)

# copy the rules generated before / was mounted read-write
for file in /dev/.udev/tmp-rules--*; do
  dest=${file##*tmp-rules--}
  [ "$dest" = '*' ] && break
  cat $file >> /etc/udev/rules.d/$dest
  rm -f $file
done

> In an initramfs boot, which is the standard distro setup today, /etc is
> writable at that point anyway, and we don't have that problem, right?
Does a typical initramfs have e.g. sed?

-- 
ciao,
Marco

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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Kay Sievers]

On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 19:02 +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Aug 18, Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org> wrote:
> 
> > Marco, how does Debian handle the other issues when it never triggers
> > failed events again? Like /usr or other part of the filesystem, or
> > whatever service not available at that time of the bootup?
> Scripts fork and wait in the background until they can continue.
> I still do not like the idea of restarting all failed events without
> knowing why they failed.

Oh, but that works only for stuff that is trying to be directly executed
by udev, but isn't there, right? A script or tool that fails cause it
uses something that isn't reachable at that point, will never be tried
again, right?

> > The generic 'retrigger' to create the rules later, when /etc is writable
> > sounds much easier than having a special boot script logic for that
> > special case.
> Looks simple enough to me: :-)

Yeah, it's simple, especially in the case you don't handle failed events
at all. :)

> # copy the rules generated before / was mounted read-write
> for file in /dev/.udev/tmp-rules--*; do
>   dest=${file##*tmp-rules--}
>   [ "$dest" = '*' ] && break
>   cat $file >> /etc/udev/rules.d/$dest
>   rm -f $file
> done

Ah, that is also doing that for the network stuff?

> > In an initramfs boot, which is the standard distro setup today, /etc is
> > writable at that point anyway, and we don't have that problem, right?
> Does a typical initramfs have e.g. sed?

Oh, I doubt there is anything like 'typical' here, everybody is doing
its own silly thing here. The SUSE initramfs has sed, yes.

Kay


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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Marco d'Itri]

On Aug 18, Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org> wrote:

> > Scripts fork and wait in the background until they can continue.
> > I still do not like the idea of restarting all failed events without
> > knowing why they failed.
> Oh, but that works only for stuff that is trying to be directly executed
> by udev, but isn't there, right? A script or tool that fails cause it
> uses something that isn't reachable at that point, will never be tried
> again, right?
No, the few packages which need stuff in /usr have scripts which wait
for some event (tipically the presence of /dev/log) before continuing.
I provided a function to do this and so far it has worked well.

> > > The generic 'retrigger' to create the rules later, when /etc is writable
> > > sounds much easier than having a special boot script logic for that
> > > special case.
> > Looks simple enough to me: :-)

> Yeah, it's simple, especially in the case you don't handle failed events
> at all. :)
The idea is that events should not fail depending on when they are
received, so there retriggering failed events a few seconds later would
have no effect.

> Ah, that is also doing that for the network stuff?
Yes, and anything else we have not implemented yet (some people are
still waiting for persistent sound devices).

-- 
ciao,
Marco

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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Kay Sievers]

On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 19:22 +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Aug 18, Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org> wrote:
> 
> > > Scripts fork and wait in the background until they can continue.
> > > I still do not like the idea of restarting all failed events without
> > > knowing why they failed.
> > Oh, but that works only for stuff that is trying to be directly executed
> > by udev, but isn't there, right? A script or tool that fails cause it
> > uses something that isn't reachable at that point, will never be tried
> > again, right?
> No, the few packages which need stuff in /usr have scripts which wait
> for some event (tipically the presence of /dev/log) before continuing.
> I provided a function to do this and so far it has worked well.

Does it detach from the event process? Otherwise how do you manage that
it doesn't block another dependent events from running, or that you
don't run into the limit of maximum childs running?

> > > > The generic 'retrigger' to create the rules later, when /etc is writable
> > > > sounds much easier than having a special boot script logic for that
> > > > special case.
> > > Looks simple enough to me: :-)
> 
> > Yeah, it's simple, especially in the case you don't handle failed events
> > at all. :)
> The idea is that events should not fail depending on when they are
> received, so there retriggering failed events a few seconds later would
> have no effect.

Hmm, it's not 'a few seconds later' it's after localfs is done and all
system filesystem can expected to be available. That still sounds like a
sane approach and handles far more failure cases, cause of weird system
setups.

> > Ah, that is also doing that for the network stuff?
> Yes, and anything else we have not implemented yet (some people are
> still waiting for persistent sound devices).

Yeah, that will probably need help from/work in conjunction with
libalsa, as there are pretty complex alsa config files possible which
expect a certain hardware to match too.

Kay


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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Marco d'Itri]

On Aug 18, Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org> wrote:

> > No, the few packages which need stuff in /usr have scripts which wait
> > for some event (tipically the presence of /dev/log) before continuing.
> > I provided a function to do this and so far it has worked well.
> Does it detach from the event process? Otherwise how do you manage that
Yes.

> Hmm, it's not 'a few seconds later' it's after localfs is done and all
> system filesystem can expected to be available. That still sounds like a
> sane approach and handles far more failure cases, cause of weird system
> setups.
This looks a bit like fixing the effects and not the causes of bugs.

-- 
ciao,
Marco

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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Kay Sievers]

On Fri, 2006-08-18 at 20:37 +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Aug 18, Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org> wrote:
> 
> > > No, the few packages which need stuff in /usr have scripts which wait
> > > for some event (tipically the presence of /dev/log) before continuing.
> > > I provided a function to do this and so far it has worked well.
> > Does it detach from the event process? Otherwise how do you manage that
> Yes.

Ok, fine.

> > Hmm, it's not 'a few seconds later' it's after localfs is done and all
> > system filesystem can expected to be available. That still sounds like a
> > sane approach and handles far more failure cases, cause of weird system
> > setups.
> This looks a bit like fixing the effects and not the causes of bugs.

Yeah, but the real bug is /usr not on the rootfs, or tools in udev rules
that use stuff in /usr. Unfortunately, people don't want me to fix this
'bug'. :)

Care to post an as much as possible stand-alone solution from the Debian
script for the cdrom rules, so we all can start to look at it for a
possible integration into the udev tree? If that works well, we can
continue with the network stuff ...

Thanks,
Kay


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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[VMiklos]

2006/8/19, Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org>:
> Care to post an as much as possible stand-alone solution from the Debian
> script for the cdrom rules, so we all can start to look at it for a
> possible integration into the udev tree? If that works well, we can
> continue with the network stuff ...

Marco, if you don't have time, may i help you with doing this? of
course you're much more competent, just in case you don't have the
time.. :)

udv / greetings,
VMiklos

-- 
Developer of Frugalware Linux, to make things frugal - http://frugalware.org

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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Marco d'Itri]

On Aug 23, VMiklos <vmiklos@gmail.com> wrote:

> Marco, if you don't have time, may i help you with doing this? of
> course you're much more competent, just in case you don't have the
> time.. :)
I will send the scripts soon, I first need to fix 098 and the PHYS*
variables.

-- 
ciao,
Marco

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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[VMiklos]

2006/8/23, Marco d'Itri <md@linux.it>:
> I will send the scripts soon, I first need to fix 098 and the PHYS*
> variables.

any news? :)

udv / greetings,
VMiklos

-- 
Developer of Frugalware Linux, to make things frugal - http://frugalware.org

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Re: [PATCH] optical_gen

[Kay Sievers]

On Fri, 2006-09-01 at 20:17 +0200, VMiklos wrote:
> 2006/8/23, Marco d'Itri <md@linux.it>:
> > I will send the scripts soon, I first need to fix 098 and the PHYS*
> > variables.
> 
> any news? :)

http://www.kernel.org/git/?p=linux/hotplug/udev.git;a=commit;hûcbf70bb21a618024ce8c1ea0b4f6718c2a8dd2

For support of a read-only /etc on bootup, the second udev init-script,
will need:

  # copy the rules generated before / was mounted read-write
  for file in /dev/.udev/tmp-rules--*; do
    dest=${file##*tmp-rules--}
    [ "$dest" = '*' ] && break
    cat $file >> /etc/udev/rules.d/$dest
    rm -f $file
  done

I'll add example/dummy udev init-scripts later to the tree, which will
contain this snippet.

Thanks a lot to Marco for doing this.

Kay


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