* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
@ 2011-06-16 14:28 ` Kay Sievers
2011-06-16 14:48 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user Takashi Iwai
` (14 subsequent siblings)
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Kay Sievers @ 2011-06-16 14:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:12, David Henningsson
<david.henningsson@canonical.com> wrote:
> One missing piece for userspace (PulseAudio etc) to actually be able to use
> the jack input devices that ALSA create, is that these devices are
> accessible by root only. This patch makes the input device nodes accessible
> by the same users that can access the sound card: the current logged in
> user, as well as users in the audio group.
>
> One thing I was thinking about, was that the udev-acl rule actually grants
> read-write access to the input device node, where probably only read access
> is needed. Is this dangerous?
Takashi, wasn't there already something else to use from ALSA than the
artificial input devices?
Thanks,
Kay
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
2011-06-16 14:28 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the Kay Sievers
@ 2011-06-16 14:48 ` Takashi Iwai
2011-06-16 14:55 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the Kay Sievers
` (13 subsequent siblings)
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Takashi Iwai @ 2011-06-16 14:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
At Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:28:08 +0200,
Kay Sievers wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:12, David Henningsson
> <david.henningsson@canonical.com> wrote:
> > One missing piece for userspace (PulseAudio etc) to actually be able to use
> > the jack input devices that ALSA create, is that these devices are
> > accessible by root only. This patch makes the input device nodes accessible
> > by the same users that can access the sound card: the current logged in
> > user, as well as users in the audio group.
> >
> > One thing I was thinking about, was that the udev-acl rule actually grants
> > read-write access to the input device node, where probably only read access
> > is needed. Is this dangerous?
>
> Takashi, wasn't there already something else to use from ALSA than the
> artificial input devices?
These input devices are just notification from the sound driver at
jack plugging, so basically it's read-only indeed, and setting the
file permission RO would make sense.
I can't judge more since I haven't seen the patch.
thanks,
Takashi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
2011-06-16 14:28 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the Kay Sievers
2011-06-16 14:48 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user Takashi Iwai
@ 2011-06-16 14:55 ` Kay Sievers
2011-06-16 15:02 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user Takashi Iwai
` (12 subsequent siblings)
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Kay Sievers @ 2011-06-16 14:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:48, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> At Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:28:08 +0200,
> Kay Sievers wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:12, David Henningsson
>> <david.henningsson@canonical.com> wrote:
>> > One missing piece for userspace (PulseAudio etc) to actually be able to use
>> > the jack input devices that ALSA create, is that these devices are
>> > accessible by root only. This patch makes the input device nodes accessible
>> > by the same users that can access the sound card: the current logged in
>> > user, as well as users in the audio group.
>> >
>> > One thing I was thinking about, was that the udev-acl rule actually grants
>> > read-write access to the input device node, where probably only read access
>> > is needed. Is this dangerous?
>>
>> Takashi, wasn't there already something else to use from ALSA than the
>> artificial input devices?
>
> These input devices are just notification from the sound driver at
> jack plugging, so basically it's read-only indeed, and setting the
> file permission RO would make sense.
Na, I mean, I remember you talking about some other channel of
notifications about jack changes.
Didn't the input devices get replaced by something on the control
device? Or was that just a plan?
Kay
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2011-06-16 14:55 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the Kay Sievers
@ 2011-06-16 15:02 ` Takashi Iwai
2011-06-17 6:17 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (11 subsequent siblings)
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Takashi Iwai @ 2011-06-16 15:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
At Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:55:39 +0200,
Kay Sievers wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:48, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> > At Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:28:08 +0200,
> > Kay Sievers wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:12, David Henningsson
> >> <david.henningsson@canonical.com> wrote:
> >> > One missing piece for userspace (PulseAudio etc) to actually be able to use
> >> > the jack input devices that ALSA create, is that these devices are
> >> > accessible by root only. This patch makes the input device nodes accessible
> >> > by the same users that can access the sound card: the current logged in
> >> > user, as well as users in the audio group.
> >> >
> >> > One thing I was thinking about, was that the udev-acl rule actually grants
> >> > read-write access to the input device node, where probably only read access
> >> > is needed. Is this dangerous?
> >>
> >> Takashi, wasn't there already something else to use from ALSA than the
> >> artificial input devices?
> >
> > These input devices are just notification from the sound driver at
> > jack plugging, so basically it's read-only indeed, and setting the
> > file permission RO would make sense.
>
> Na, I mean, I remember you talking about some other channel of
> notifications about jack changes.
Ah, yeah, it's still possible to implement via ALSA control API, too.
Just add a new control element for jack notification, and the apps can
listen to it via normal ALSA API like the mixer elements.
> Didn't the input devices get replaced by something on the control
> device? Or was that just a plan?
I had some patches for it years ago, but never got merged.
If apps prefer it, I can revisit it. Meanwhile, the jack-input stuff
is already present, so it might not be worth for it.
Takashi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2011-06-16 15:02 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user Takashi Iwai
@ 2011-06-17 6:17 ` David Henningsson
2011-06-17 6:20 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user Takashi Iwai
` (10 subsequent siblings)
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: David Henningsson @ 2011-06-17 6:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On 2011-06-16 16:48, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> At Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:28:08 +0200,
> Kay Sievers wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:12, David Henningsson
>> <david.henningsson@canonical.com> wrote:
>>> One missing piece for userspace (PulseAudio etc) to actually be able to use
>>> the jack input devices that ALSA create, is that these devices are
>>> accessible by root only. This patch makes the input device nodes accessible
>>> by the same users that can access the sound card: the current logged in
>>> user, as well as users in the audio group.
>>>
>>> One thing I was thinking about, was that the udev-acl rule actually grants
>>> read-write access to the input device node, where probably only read access
>>> is needed. Is this dangerous?
>>
>> Takashi, wasn't there already something else to use from ALSA than the
>> artificial input devices?
>
> These input devices are just notification from the sound driver at
> jack plugging, so basically it's read-only indeed, and setting the
> file permission RO would make sense.
>
> I can't judge more since I haven't seen the patch.
It was posted to alsa-devel (for comments) two days ago, see:
http://mailman.alsa-project.org/pipermail/alsa-devel/2011-June/040916.html
and
http://mailman.alsa-project.org/pipermail/alsa-devel/2011-June/040917.html
--
David Henningsson, Canonical Ltd.
http://launchpad.net/~diwic
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (4 preceding siblings ...)
2011-06-17 6:17 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
@ 2011-06-17 6:20 ` Takashi Iwai
2011-06-17 11:27 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (9 subsequent siblings)
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Takashi Iwai @ 2011-06-17 6:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
At Fri, 17 Jun 2011 08:17:07 +0200,
David Henningsson wrote:
>
> On 2011-06-16 16:48, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > At Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:28:08 +0200,
> > Kay Sievers wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:12, David Henningsson
> >> <david.henningsson@canonical.com> wrote:
> >>> One missing piece for userspace (PulseAudio etc) to actually be able to use
> >>> the jack input devices that ALSA create, is that these devices are
> >>> accessible by root only. This patch makes the input device nodes accessible
> >>> by the same users that can access the sound card: the current logged in
> >>> user, as well as users in the audio group.
> >>>
> >>> One thing I was thinking about, was that the udev-acl rule actually grants
> >>> read-write access to the input device node, where probably only read access
> >>> is needed. Is this dangerous?
> >>
> >> Takashi, wasn't there already something else to use from ALSA than the
> >> artificial input devices?
> >
> > These input devices are just notification from the sound driver at
> > jack plugging, so basically it's read-only indeed, and setting the
> > file permission RO would make sense.
> >
> > I can't judge more since I haven't seen the patch.
>
> It was posted to alsa-devel (for comments) two days ago, see:
>
> http://mailman.alsa-project.org/pipermail/alsa-devel/2011-June/040916.html
>
> and
>
> http://mailman.alsa-project.org/pipermail/alsa-devel/2011-June/040917.html
Thanks, I see it now.
Takashi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (5 preceding siblings ...)
2011-06-17 6:20 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user Takashi Iwai
@ 2011-06-17 11:27 ` David Henningsson
2011-06-17 12:31 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the Lennart Poettering
` (8 subsequent siblings)
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: David Henningsson @ 2011-06-17 11:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On 2011-06-16 17:02, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> At Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:55:39 +0200,
> Kay Sievers wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:48, Takashi Iwai<tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
>>> At Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:28:08 +0200,
>>> Kay Sievers wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:12, David Henningsson
>>>> <david.henningsson@canonical.com> wrote:
>>>>> One missing piece for userspace (PulseAudio etc) to actually be able to use
>>>>> the jack input devices that ALSA create, is that these devices are
>>>>> accessible by root only. This patch makes the input device nodes accessible
>>>>> by the same users that can access the sound card: the current logged in
>>>>> user, as well as users in the audio group.
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing I was thinking about, was that the udev-acl rule actually grants
>>>>> read-write access to the input device node, where probably only read access
>>>>> is needed. Is this dangerous?
>>>>
>>>> Takashi, wasn't there already something else to use from ALSA than the
>>>> artificial input devices?
>>>
>>> These input devices are just notification from the sound driver at
>>> jack plugging, so basically it's read-only indeed, and setting the
>>> file permission RO would make sense.
So the problem is that there is no way to accomplish that in
70-acl.rules right now. Would it be some kind of security flaw if we
allowed write access? What can you really do/damage by writing to these
things?
>> Na, I mean, I remember you talking about some other channel of
>> notifications about jack changes.
>
> Ah, yeah, it's still possible to implement via ALSA control API, too.
> Just add a new control element for jack notification, and the apps can
> listen to it via normal ALSA API like the mixer elements.
>
>> Didn't the input devices get replaced by something on the control
>> device? Or was that just a plan?
>
> I had some patches for it years ago, but never got merged.
> If apps prefer it, I can revisit it. Meanwhile, the jack-input stuff
> is already present, so it might not be worth for it.
As for which architecture works better, I'm not sure. Anyway, my point
is, as this is what ALSA currently uses, this is what we should support
all the way up the stack. If ALSA switches architecture, let's revisit
this patch at that point. (Btw, there are already an experimental set of
patches available for PulseAudio that polls for these input events.)
--
David Henningsson, Canonical Ltd.
http://launchpad.net/~diwic
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (6 preceding siblings ...)
2011-06-17 11:27 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
@ 2011-06-17 12:31 ` Lennart Poettering
2011-06-17 12:42 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user Takashi Iwai
` (7 subsequent siblings)
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Poettering @ 2011-06-17 12:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On Fri, 17.06.11 13:27, David Henningsson (david.henningsson@canonical.com) wrote:
> On 2011-06-16 17:02, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> >At Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:55:39 +0200,
> >Kay Sievers wrote:
> >>
> >>On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:48, Takashi Iwai<tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> >>>At Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:28:08 +0200,
> >>>Kay Sievers wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:12, David Henningsson
> >>>><david.henningsson@canonical.com> wrote:
> >>>>>One missing piece for userspace (PulseAudio etc) to actually be able to use
> >>>>>the jack input devices that ALSA create, is that these devices are
> >>>>>accessible by root only. This patch makes the input device nodes accessible
> >>>>>by the same users that can access the sound card: the current logged in
> >>>>>user, as well as users in the audio group.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>One thing I was thinking about, was that the udev-acl rule actually grants
> >>>>>read-write access to the input device node, where probably only read access
> >>>>>is needed. Is this dangerous?
> >>>>
> >>>>Takashi, wasn't there already something else to use from ALSA than the
> >>>>artificial input devices?
> >>>
> >>>These input devices are just notification from the sound driver at
> >>>jack plugging, so basically it's read-only indeed, and setting the
> >>>file permission RO would make sense.
>
> So the problem is that there is no way to accomplish that in
> 70-acl.rules right now. Would it be some kind of security flaw if we
> allowed write access? What can you really do/damage by writing to
> these things?
>
> >>Na, I mean, I remember you talking about some other channel of
> >>notifications about jack changes.
> >
> >Ah, yeah, it's still possible to implement via ALSA control API, too.
> >Just add a new control element for jack notification, and the apps can
> >listen to it via normal ALSA API like the mixer elements.
Takashi, what's the perspective on this? Your patches, would they
convert *all* existing drivers to this new interfaces, or just HDA?
If we add new infrastructure to udev (and PA), does it really make sense
to that with an interface that is suboptimal and is going to be replaced
very quickly anyway?
If you have the patches ready to convert all drivers which currently can
do jack sensing over to the new scheme with control elements, then we
should probably focus on that for the future, shouldn't we?
Lennart
--
Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (7 preceding siblings ...)
2011-06-17 12:31 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the Lennart Poettering
@ 2011-06-17 12:42 ` Takashi Iwai
2011-06-17 12:45 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the Lennart Poettering
` (6 subsequent siblings)
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Takashi Iwai @ 2011-06-17 12:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
At Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:31:48 +0200,
Lennart Poettering wrote:
>
> On Fri, 17.06.11 13:27, David Henningsson (david.henningsson@canonical.com) wrote:
>
> > On 2011-06-16 17:02, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > >At Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:55:39 +0200,
> > >Kay Sievers wrote:
> > >>
> > >>On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:48, Takashi Iwai<tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> > >>>At Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:28:08 +0200,
> > >>>Kay Sievers wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 16:12, David Henningsson
> > >>>><david.henningsson@canonical.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>One missing piece for userspace (PulseAudio etc) to actually be able to use
> > >>>>>the jack input devices that ALSA create, is that these devices are
> > >>>>>accessible by root only. This patch makes the input device nodes accessible
> > >>>>>by the same users that can access the sound card: the current logged in
> > >>>>>user, as well as users in the audio group.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>One thing I was thinking about, was that the udev-acl rule actually grants
> > >>>>>read-write access to the input device node, where probably only read access
> > >>>>>is needed. Is this dangerous?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Takashi, wasn't there already something else to use from ALSA than the
> > >>>>artificial input devices?
> > >>>
> > >>>These input devices are just notification from the sound driver at
> > >>>jack plugging, so basically it's read-only indeed, and setting the
> > >>>file permission RO would make sense.
> >
> > So the problem is that there is no way to accomplish that in
> > 70-acl.rules right now. Would it be some kind of security flaw if we
> > allowed write access? What can you really do/damage by writing to
> > these things?
> >
> > >>Na, I mean, I remember you talking about some other channel of
> > >>notifications about jack changes.
> > >
> > >Ah, yeah, it's still possible to implement via ALSA control API, too.
> > >Just add a new control element for jack notification, and the apps can
> > >listen to it via normal ALSA API like the mixer elements.
>
> Takashi, what's the perspective on this? Your patches, would they
> convert *all* existing drivers to this new interfaces, or just HDA?
So far, only HD-audio and ASoC drivers provide the jack-sensing
notification. My patch didn't change ASoC drivers, so it's only about
HD-audio.
> If we add new infrastructure to udev (and PA), does it really make sense
> to that with an interface that is suboptimal and is going to be replaced
> very quickly anyway?
We've had already this infrastructure for years, but mostly used by
ASoC, so basically independently from desktops, thus they had little
care about the file permissions.
> If you have the patches ready to convert all drivers which currently can
> do jack sensing over to the new scheme with control elements, then we
> should probably focus on that for the future, shouldn't we?
For PA work, I suppose so (although I won't object to someone working
on the implementation with the present input-jack layer :)
But you can see David's patch basically independent from PA.
thanks,
Takashi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (8 preceding siblings ...)
2011-06-17 12:42 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user Takashi Iwai
@ 2011-06-17 12:45 ` Lennart Poettering
2011-06-17 12:51 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user Takashi Iwai
` (5 subsequent siblings)
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Poettering @ 2011-06-17 12:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On Fri, 17.06.11 14:42, Takashi Iwai (tiwai@suse.de) wrote:
> > If you have the patches ready to convert all drivers which currently can
> > do jack sensing over to the new scheme with control elements, then we
> > should probably focus on that for the future, shouldn't we?
>
> For PA work, I suppose so (although I won't object to someone working
> on the implementation with the present input-jack layer :)
> But you can see David's patch basically independent from PA.
Well, but I'd guess that the access permissions only really matter for
PA, right? So if we say that proper jack sensing via control elements is
the way to go, then PA should adopt this new scheme and this new scheme
only, and not bother with the input device cruft, and the udev patch
should not be merged either as PA would be its only consumer...
Lennart
--
Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (9 preceding siblings ...)
2011-06-17 12:45 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the Lennart Poettering
@ 2011-06-17 12:51 ` Takashi Iwai
2011-06-17 13:00 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the Lennart Poettering
` (4 subsequent siblings)
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Takashi Iwai @ 2011-06-17 12:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
At Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:45:52 +0200,
Lennart Poettering wrote:
>
> On Fri, 17.06.11 14:42, Takashi Iwai (tiwai@suse.de) wrote:
>
> > > If you have the patches ready to convert all drivers which currently can
> > > do jack sensing over to the new scheme with control elements, then we
> > > should probably focus on that for the future, shouldn't we?
> >
> > For PA work, I suppose so (although I won't object to someone working
> > on the implementation with the present input-jack layer :)
> > But you can see David's patch basically independent from PA.
>
> Well, but I'd guess that the access permissions only really matter for
> PA, right?
Not really. For example, I was asked about the input-jack stuff by
a couple of vendors for their own products, apparently running without
PA.
> So if we say that proper jack sensing via control elements is
> the way to go, then PA should adopt this new scheme and this new scheme
> only, and not bother with the input device cruft, and the udev patch
> should not be merged either as PA would be its only consumer...
I would be against the patch if the change were too intrusive,
but this change itself looks small enough to me.
The question whether PA should use it or not is a different thing.
thanks,
Takashi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (10 preceding siblings ...)
2011-06-17 12:51 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user Takashi Iwai
@ 2011-06-17 13:00 ` Lennart Poettering
2011-06-17 13:05 ` Kay Sievers
` (3 subsequent siblings)
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Poettering @ 2011-06-17 13:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On Fri, 17.06.11 14:51, Takashi Iwai (tiwai@suse.de) wrote:
>
> At Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:45:52 +0200,
> Lennart Poettering wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 17.06.11 14:42, Takashi Iwai (tiwai@suse.de) wrote:
> >
> > > > If you have the patches ready to convert all drivers which currently can
> > > > do jack sensing over to the new scheme with control elements, then we
> > > > should probably focus on that for the future, shouldn't we?
> > >
> > > For PA work, I suppose so (although I won't object to someone working
> > > on the implementation with the present input-jack layer :)
> > > But you can see David's patch basically independent from PA.
> >
> > Well, but I'd guess that the access permissions only really matter for
> > PA, right?
>
> Not really. For example, I was asked about the input-jack stuff by
> a couple of vendors for their own products, apparently running without
> PA.
Well, but the point I am trying to make: the embedded vendors are not
interested in the automatic udev ACL management for the jack sensing
input devices, right?
That means the udev patch is really and only relevant for usage in PA on
desktops.
> > So if we say that proper jack sensing via control elements is
> > the way to go, then PA should adopt this new scheme and this new scheme
> > only, and not bother with the input device cruft, and the udev patch
> > should not be merged either as PA would be its only consumer...
>
> I would be against the patch if the change were too intrusive,
> but this change itself looks small enough to me.
> The question whether PA should use it or not is a different thing.
As I understand Kay he's quite keen on keeping the number of default
udev rules small, especially with stuff that people might then start to
rely on.
Lennart
--
Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (11 preceding siblings ...)
2011-06-17 13:00 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the Lennart Poettering
@ 2011-06-17 13:05 ` Kay Sievers
2011-06-17 13:10 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user Takashi Iwai
` (2 subsequent siblings)
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Kay Sievers @ 2011-06-17 13:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 14:51, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> At Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:45:52 +0200,
> Lennart Poettering wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 17.06.11 14:42, Takashi Iwai (tiwai@suse.de) wrote:
>>
>> > > If you have the patches ready to convert all drivers which currently can
>> > > do jack sensing over to the new scheme with control elements, then we
>> > > should probably focus on that for the future, shouldn't we?
>> >
>> > For PA work, I suppose so (although I won't object to someone working
>> > on the implementation with the present input-jack layer :)
>> > But you can see David's patch basically independent from PA.
>>
>> Well, but I'd guess that the access permissions only really matter for
>> PA, right?
>
> Not really. Â For example, I was asked about the input-jack stuff by
> a couple of vendors for their own products, apparently running without
> PA.
I can't imagine they asked for it because they wanted input devces. I
guess they just asked for jack-events, didn't they?
>> So if we say that proper jack sensing via control elements is
>> the way to go, then PA should adopt this new scheme and this new scheme
>> only, and not bother with the input device cruft, and the udev patch
>> should not be merged either as PA would be its only consumer...
>
> I would be against the patch if the change were too intrusive,
> but this change itself looks small enough to me.
> The question whether PA should use it or not is a different thing.
The thing is that currently PA doesn't use input jack devices, and
honestly I think all the input device misuse must stop. From my point
of view jack senses belong entirely to the alsa device domain and not
to unrelated fake input devices.
So if you can get the control events working in a reasonable time
frame, I would really prefer to add support for that to PA, and
nothing is needed on udev's side.
Kay
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (12 preceding siblings ...)
2011-06-17 13:05 ` Kay Sievers
@ 2011-06-17 13:10 ` Takashi Iwai
2011-06-17 13:15 ` Takashi Iwai
2011-06-17 13:25 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the Kay Sievers
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Takashi Iwai @ 2011-06-17 13:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
At Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:00:58 +0200,
Lennart Poettering wrote:
>
> On Fri, 17.06.11 14:51, Takashi Iwai (tiwai@suse.de) wrote:
>
> >
> > At Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:45:52 +0200,
> > Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, 17.06.11 14:42, Takashi Iwai (tiwai@suse.de) wrote:
> > >
> > > > > If you have the patches ready to convert all drivers which currently can
> > > > > do jack sensing over to the new scheme with control elements, then we
> > > > > should probably focus on that for the future, shouldn't we?
> > > >
> > > > For PA work, I suppose so (although I won't object to someone working
> > > > on the implementation with the present input-jack layer :)
> > > > But you can see David's patch basically independent from PA.
> > >
> > > Well, but I'd guess that the access permissions only really matter for
> > > PA, right?
> >
> > Not really. For example, I was asked about the input-jack stuff by
> > a couple of vendors for their own products, apparently running without
> > PA.
>
> Well, but the point I am trying to make: the embedded vendors are not
> interested in the automatic udev ACL management for the jack sensing
> input devices, right?
Ah, no, what I was asked weren't about ASoC but with HD-audio.
They were (so-called) multimedia-center devices, so small-factor PCs
indeed. I don't know whether udev is used, but I won't be surprised
if they do.
Takashi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (13 preceding siblings ...)
2011-06-17 13:10 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current user Takashi Iwai
@ 2011-06-17 13:15 ` Takashi Iwai
2011-06-17 13:25 ` [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the Kay Sievers
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Takashi Iwai @ 2011-06-17 13:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
At Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:05:14 +0200,
Kay Sievers wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 14:51, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> > At Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:45:52 +0200,
> > Lennart Poettering wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, 17.06.11 14:42, Takashi Iwai (tiwai@suse.de) wrote:
> >>
> >> > > If you have the patches ready to convert all drivers which currently can
> >> > > do jack sensing over to the new scheme with control elements, then we
> >> > > should probably focus on that for the future, shouldn't we?
> >> >
> >> > For PA work, I suppose so (although I won't object to someone working
> >> > on the implementation with the present input-jack layer :)
> >> > But you can see David's patch basically independent from PA.
> >>
> >> Well, but I'd guess that the access permissions only really matter for
> >> PA, right?
> >
> > Not really. Â For example, I was asked about the input-jack stuff by
> > a couple of vendors for their own products, apparently running without
> > PA.
>
> I can't imagine they asked for it because they wanted input devces. I
> guess they just asked for jack-events, didn't they?
Right. And the only handy and existing solutions were to use these
input devices.
> >> So if we say that proper jack sensing via control elements is
> >> the way to go, then PA should adopt this new scheme and this new scheme
> >> only, and not bother with the input device cruft, and the udev patch
> >> should not be merged either as PA would be its only consumer...
> >
> > I would be against the patch if the change were too intrusive,
> > but this change itself looks small enough to me.
> > The question whether PA should use it or not is a different thing.
>
> The thing is that currently PA doesn't use input jack devices, and
> honestly I think all the input device misuse must stop. From my point
> of view jack senses belong entirely to the alsa device domain and not
> to unrelated fake input devices.
>
> So if you can get the control events working in a reasonable time
> frame, I would really prefer to add support for that to PA, and
> nothing is needed on udev's side.
OK, it's your call.
thanks,
Takashi
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread* Re: [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the
2011-06-16 14:12 [PATCH] udev: Allow ALSA input jacks to be accessed by the current David Henningsson
` (14 preceding siblings ...)
2011-06-17 13:15 ` Takashi Iwai
@ 2011-06-17 13:25 ` Kay Sievers
15 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Kay Sievers @ 2011-06-17 13:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 15:15, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> At Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:05:14 +0200, Kay Sievers wrote:
>> So if you can get the control events working in a reasonable time
>> frame, I would really prefer to add support for that to PA, and
>> nothing is needed on udev's side.
>
> OK, it's your call.
Oh, I think it's actually yours. :)
If you can provide us with the (I think much nicer) ALSA control
events, I would wait for that.
But if you tell us that we can expect that anytime soon, we will
probably need to merge the PA and udev bits (which I think is
sub-optimal).
Thanks,
Kay
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread