* Re: udev issues
2006-01-23 15:48 udev issues Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom)
@ 2006-01-23 16:15 ` Andrey Borzenkov
2006-01-23 16:28 ` Dmitry Torokhov
` (9 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Andrey Borzenkov @ 2006-01-23 16:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
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On Monday 23 January 2006 18:48, Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom) wrote:
> I am currently running Debian
> (Sarge) 2.4.x and cant upgrade to 2.6 because of your 'mess' of a
> 'solution'. Dont blame debian.
>
If you manage to explain what exactly does not work, someone may be able to
help you and even may be improve udev in general ...
- -andrey
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: udev issues
2006-01-23 15:48 udev issues Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom)
2006-01-23 16:15 ` Andrey Borzenkov
@ 2006-01-23 16:28 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2006-01-23 17:10 ` Robert Kennedy
` (8 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Torokhov @ 2006-01-23 16:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On 1/23/06, Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom) <JimBodkins@yahoo.com> wrote:
> This is mainly a (pointless) comment.
>
>
> I frankly dont give a damn what dev system is used. But frankly, the
> isssues that are caused and not dealt with with the introduction of udev are
> entirely unacceptable. They are, to me, symptomatic of a half baked idea.
> What is the raw half? Implementation. I am currently running Debian (Sarge)
> 2.4.x and cant upgrade to 2.6 because of your 'mess' of a 'solution'. Dont
> blame debian.
>
Hmm, I am running 2.6 and I don't even have udev installed. So again
what stops you from upgrading?
--
Dmitry
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* RE: udev issues
2006-01-23 15:48 udev issues Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom)
2006-01-23 16:15 ` Andrey Borzenkov
2006-01-23 16:28 ` Dmitry Torokhov
@ 2006-01-23 17:10 ` Robert Kennedy
2006-01-23 17:22 ` Brian Sammon
` (7 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Robert Kennedy @ 2006-01-23 17:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
>From: "Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom)" <JimBodkins@yahoo.com>
>To: <linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
>Subject: udev issues
>Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 08:48:51 -0700
>
>This is mainly a (pointless) comment.
>
>
> I frankly dont give a damn what dev system is used. But frankly, the
>isssues that are caused and not dealt with with the introduction of udev
>are entirely unacceptable. They are, to me, symptomatic of a half baked
>idea. What is the raw half? Implementation. I am currently running Debian
>(Sarge) 2.4.x and cant upgrade to 2.6 because of your 'mess' of a
>'solution'. Dont blame debian.
>
>
> Do you understand that this makes the core linux effort appear entirely
>amateurish? I should ask ... is it entirely amateurish? Can you do better?
>Have you done your best? This falls very short IMO - even IF it is a better
>device filesystem.
>
>
>Jim
>
This is a troll. Don't bite.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: udev issues
2006-01-23 15:48 udev issues Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom)
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2006-01-23 17:10 ` Robert Kennedy
@ 2006-01-23 17:22 ` Brian Sammon
2006-01-23 18:00 ` Andrey Borzenkov
` (6 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Brian Sammon @ 2006-01-23 17:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
> I frankly dont give a damn what dev system is used. But frankly, the
> isssues that are caused and not dealt with with the introduction of udev are
> entirely unacceptable. They are, to me, symptomatic of a half baked idea.
> What is the raw half? Implementation. I am currently running Debian (Sarge)
> 2.4.x and cant upgrade to 2.6 because of your 'mess' of a 'solution'. Dont
> blame debian.
I've run into the exact same problem that Jim here has run into, and it
inspired me to post here a few weeks ago.
Let me see if I can explain the situation a bit more.
In Debian, the testing udev package "conflicts" with hotplug. The stable udev
package is 0.056-3, too old for recent 2.6 kernels. As a result, in Debian, if
you want to dual-boot 2.4 and 2.6, your 2.4 kernel won't have any kind of
hotplugging support if you use the udev debian package for a recent 2.6 kernel.
In fact, this is primarily a Debian problem. However, there is an unfortunate
lack of distribution-independent information about how to set things up for
dual-boot between 2.4 and 2.6.
When I was looking into this a few weeks ago, I learned that there was one
simple way of dealing with this: Forget udev, and use hotplug for both 2.4
and 2.6.
Alternatively, I suspect there may be a way to get udev and hotplug to
coexist, and to get your startup scripts to automatically figure out which one
to run.
Debian doesn't have anything like that (at least not for recent 2.6 kernels).
If I get around to hacking something like that together manually, I'll be sure
to post a howto.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: udev issues
2006-01-23 15:48 udev issues Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom)
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2006-01-23 17:22 ` Brian Sammon
@ 2006-01-23 18:00 ` Andrey Borzenkov
2006-01-23 18:08 ` Marco d'Itri
` (5 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Andrey Borzenkov @ 2006-01-23 18:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
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On Monday 23 January 2006 20:22, Brian Sammon wrote:
> Let me see if I can explain the situation a bit more.
> In Debian, the testing udev package "conflicts" with hotplug. The stable
> udev package is 0.056-3, too old for recent 2.6 kernels. As a result, in
> Debian, if you want to dual-boot 2.4 and 2.6, your 2.4 kernel won't have
> any kind of hotplugging support if you use the udev debian package for a
> recent 2.6 kernel.
>
> In fact, this is primarily a Debian problem. However, there is an
> unfortunate lack of distribution-independent information about how to set
> things up for dual-boot between 2.4 and 2.6.
>
> When I was looking into this a few weeks ago, I learned that there was one
> simple way of dealing with this: Forget udev, and use hotplug for both 2.4
> and 2.6.
> Alternatively, I suspect there may be a way to get udev and hotplug to
> coexist, and to get your startup scripts to automatically figure out which
> one to run.
> Debian doesn't have anything like that (at least not for recent 2.6
> kernels). If I get around to hacking something like that together manually,
> I'll be sure to post a howto.
>
I do not understand the problem. On 2.4 you are using hotplug like always
(sysctl -w kernel.hotplug="/sbin/hotplug"). On 2.6 you use sysctl -w
kernel.hotplug="/sbin/udevsend" or - on recent kernel - simply /bin/true (I
guess it gets removed in near future anyway). How do they conflict (except
for coldplugging but here trivial version check is sufficient)?
So there is nothing inherently broken, just that maintainers do not want to
spend time on those interoperability issues.
- -andrey
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: udev issues
2006-01-23 15:48 udev issues Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom)
` (4 preceding siblings ...)
2006-01-23 18:00 ` Andrey Borzenkov
@ 2006-01-23 18:08 ` Marco d'Itri
2006-01-23 18:36 ` Olivier Blin
` (4 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Marco d'Itri @ 2006-01-23 18:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On Jan 23, Andrey Borzenkov <arvidjaar@mail.ru> wrote:
> So there is nothing inherently broken, just that maintainers do not want to
> spend time on those interoperability issues.
You are invited to spend some time researching these issues before
assuming that the mainatiners are just being lazy.
As usual, clueless people like you do not understand the complexity of
the udev and hotplug packaging.
--
ciao,
Marco
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: udev issues
2006-01-23 15:48 udev issues Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom)
` (5 preceding siblings ...)
2006-01-23 18:08 ` Marco d'Itri
@ 2006-01-23 18:36 ` Olivier Blin
2006-01-23 18:38 ` Marco d'Itri
` (3 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Olivier Blin @ 2006-01-23 18:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
md@Linux.IT (Marco d'Itri) writes:
> On Jan 23, Andrey Borzenkov <arvidjaar@mail.ru> wrote:
>
>> So there is nothing inherently broken, just that maintainers do not want to
>> spend time on those interoperability issues.
> You are invited to spend some time researching these issues before
> assuming that the mainatiners are just being lazy.
> As usual, clueless people like you do not understand the complexity of
> the udev and hotplug packaging.
Andrey is not clueless about that. We managed to handle the transition
from hotplug to udev quite smoothly in Mandriva. Some monthes ago, we
still used udev to create devices in /dev and hotplug to do modules
loading stuff, it worked fine.
And nothing prevents to keep hotplug for 2.4, and use udev for modules
loading and device configuration in 2.6
--
Olivier Blin - Mandriva
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: udev issues
2006-01-23 15:48 udev issues Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom)
` (6 preceding siblings ...)
2006-01-23 18:36 ` Olivier Blin
@ 2006-01-23 18:38 ` Marco d'Itri
2006-01-23 19:39 ` Patrick Mulder
` (2 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Marco d'Itri @ 2006-01-23 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On Jan 23, Olivier Blin <oblin@mandriva.com> wrote:
> Andrey is not clueless about that. We managed to handle the transition
> from hotplug to udev quite smoothly in Mandriva. Some monthes ago, we
Guess what? Mandriva is not Debian.
--
ciao,
Marco
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: udev issues
2006-01-23 15:48 udev issues Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom)
` (7 preceding siblings ...)
2006-01-23 18:38 ` Marco d'Itri
@ 2006-01-23 19:39 ` Patrick Mulder
2006-01-23 19:51 ` Andrey Borzenkov
2006-01-23 20:27 ` Greg KH
10 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Patrick Mulder @ 2006-01-23 19:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
Maybe this is a good moment to re-ask my question from
1-2 weeks ago:
My Debian Sarge system with 2.6.15 kernel is not
booting properly anymore, while the 2.4.27 kernel
installs the hdd-fs without problems:
1) How can I find out if udev [0.70 I think...] is
causing the problem ?
2) How can I find out which version of udev is
installed (udevd -V would be handy but seems not to
work)
3) Is there some sort of project homepage with some
tutorials or howto's ? (Brian: If you have a preview
of your experiences with this in howto form, I would
be glad to have a look at it...)
Thanks and have fun,
Patrick
--- Brian Sammon
<linux-hotplug-list@brisammon.fastmail.fm> schrieb:
> In fact, this is primarily a Debian problem.
> However, there is an unfortunate
> lack of distribution-independent information about
> how to set things up for
> dual-boot between 2.4 and 2.6.
>
> When I was looking into this a few weeks ago, I
> learned that there was one
> simple way of dealing with this: Forget udev, and
> use hotplug for both 2.4
> and 2.6.
> Alternatively, I suspect there may be a way to get
> udev and hotplug to
> coexist, and to get your startup scripts to
> automatically figure out which one
> to run.
> Debian doesn't have anything like that (at least not
> for recent 2.6 kernels).
> If I get around to hacking something like that
> together manually, I'll be sure
> to post a howto.
>
>
>
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: udev issues
2006-01-23 15:48 udev issues Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom)
` (8 preceding siblings ...)
2006-01-23 19:39 ` Patrick Mulder
@ 2006-01-23 19:51 ` Andrey Borzenkov
2006-01-23 20:27 ` Greg KH
10 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Andrey Borzenkov @ 2006-01-23 19:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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On Monday 23 January 2006 22:39, Patrick Mulder wrote:
> 2) How can I find out which version of udev is
> installed (udevd -V would be handy but seems not to
> work)
>
udevinfo -V
- -andrey
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: udev issues
2006-01-23 15:48 udev issues Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom)
` (9 preceding siblings ...)
2006-01-23 19:51 ` Andrey Borzenkov
@ 2006-01-23 20:27 ` Greg KH
10 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2006-01-23 20:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 08:48:51AM -0700, Jim Bodkikns (Dakotacom) wrote:
> This is mainly a (pointless) comment.
Then why say it, or even use Linux.
*plonk*
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread