should the module script be invoked every time?

should the module script be invoked every time?

[Gene Cash]

OK, I'm running SuSE 8.0 with a 2.4.18 kernel, and I removed the hotplug 
RPM and installed hotplug-2002_08_26

I'm trying to get my Palm m500 to hotsync in the USB cradle when I press 
the button.  I've created a little script to do this using jpilot-sync 
from jpilot, and that part works just fine.

The script is now /etc/hotplug/usb/visor, since it's the visor module 
that supports the palms.

OK, now what documentation I've seen says that this script should be 
called *every* time the palm connects on the USB, which it does when it 
tries to initiate a hotsync.  Is this right?

However, due to (I believe) a bug in load_drivers() in 
hotplug.functions, it only gets called when the visor module is first 
loaded, and never called again until that module is unloaded. I can 
provide a patch.

Which behavour is correct?  And if the current behaviour is correct, 
then how do I get a script to run every time?

-gc

-- 
Gene Cash                   Server Technologies (Business Ops)
Phone: 407-458-5237         Oracle Support Services (Orlando, FL USA)



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Re: should the module script be invoked every time?

[Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas]

On Monday 25 November 2002 21:49, Gene Cash wrote:
> The script is now /etc/hotplug/usb/visor, since it's the visor module
> that supports the palms.

If you give your script some other name, like 'palmsync' or something else, 
your script shall run everytime you plug in the device.

Is there a reason to name the hotplug scripts like the modules?

There was the same issue some time ago with the usb-midi firmware loader  
script, but now the script is named 'ezusbmidi' instead 'usb-midi', and our  
problems are gone.

Regards,
Pedro

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Re: should the module script be invoked every time?

[David Brownell]

Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas wrote:
> On Monday 25 November 2002 21:49, Gene Cash wrote:
> 
>>The script is now /etc/hotplug/usb/visor, since it's the visor module
>>that supports the palms.
> 
> 
> If you give your script some other name, like 'palmsync' or something else, 
> your script shall run everytime you plug in the device.
> 
> Is there a reason to name the hotplug scripts like the modules?

Keeping things straight, and making it so you don't need to make any
kind of error-prone modification to files in tha quirky syntax.

This is a bug that's been hanging around for a while.  The fix should
finally be in current CVS, along with a few other updates mostly for
a bit more intelligence about how hotplug changed in 2.5 ...

- Dave



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Re: should the module script be invoked every time?

[Gene Cash]

Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas wrote:

 > On Monday 25 November 2002 21:49, Gene Cash wrote:
 >
 > >The script is now /etc/hotplug/usb/visor, since it's the visor module
 > >that supports the palms.
 >
 > If you give your script some other name, like 'palmsync' or something
 > else, your script shall run everytime you plug in the device.
 >
 > Is there a reason to name the hotplug scripts like the modules?
 >
 > There was the same issue some time ago with the usb-midi firmware
 > loader script, but now the script is named 'ezusbmidi' instead
 > 'usb-midi', and our problems are gone.

Yes, I named the script the same as the module, because the
documentation led me to believe that I had to, in order to get my script
run when "visor" style events happened.

I just renamed it palm_hotsync and now it doesn't work at all.  So 
obviously that's not it.

-gc

-- 
Gene Cash                   Server Technologies (Business Ops)
Phone: 407-458-5237         Oracle Support Services (Orlando, FL USA)




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Re: should the module script be invoked every time?

[Zach Welch]

Gene Cash wrote:
 > OK, now what documentation I've seen says that this script should be
 > called *every* time the palm connects on the USB, which it does when
 > it tries to initiate a hotsync.  Is this right?

That's my feeling as well.  In my case, the device must have its
firmware loaded via fxload, but it never works if the kernel module has
alread been loaded.  As a result, these devices never end up connecting
to the kernel driver.  The only workaround I've found is to disconnect
all of those devices, unload its kernel module, then plug all device in
simultaneously.  Yuck!

 > However, due to (I believe) a bug in load_drivers() in
 > hotplug.functions, it only gets called when the visor module is first
 >  loaded, and never called again until that module is unloaded. I can
 > provide a patch.

I just took a glance at that function, and I began to wonder if the
problem stems from the 'if ! lsmod ..' never reaching its body. This
would seem to be caused by the fact that both yours and my hotplug usb
scripts are named the same as their corresponding kernel module. If you
change the userspace script name by adding a '.sh' extension (and update
the associated usermap), I think you will find the problem magically
solved; at least, that has solved my problems.  Hurrah!

Note: if you only have one usermap device entry to update, you probably 
want to call modprobe from within the visor.sh script.  In my case, I 
have two device ids - one is the bare device, the other is provided by 
the newly loaded firmware.  Previously, both usermap entries were named 
'foo', now the pre-renumeration handler is called 'foo.sh'.

 > Which behavour is correct?  And if the current behaviour is correct,
 > then how do I get a script to run every time?

Personally, I believe the behaviour you are trying to acheive is
correct, and the current behaviour is wrong.  However, it's really more
a matter of the documentation not clearly stating that you can't name
the kernel driver the same as the hotplug script. :-p

Thanks for sending this message - I wouldn't have otherwise found the
solution today, and I love crossing issues like this off my list. :)

Cheers,

Zach Welch
Superlucidity Services




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Re: should the module script be invoked every time?

[Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas]

On Monday 25 November 2002 22:58, Gene Cash wrote:
> Yes, I named the script the same as the module, because the
> documentation led me to believe that I had to, in order to get my script
> run when "visor" style events happened.
>
> I just renamed it palm_hotsync and now it doesn't work at all.  So
> obviously that's not it.

Of course, you need to change also the script name in your  
'/etc/hotplug/usb.usermap' or '/etc/hotplug/usb/something.usermap' files.

Regards,
Pedro

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http://alsapas.alturl.com



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Re: should the module script be invoked every time?

[Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas]

On Monday 25 November 2002 22:57, David Brownell wrote:
> Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas wrote:
> > Is there a reason to name the hotplug scripts like the modules?
>
> Keeping things straight, and making it so you don't need to make any
> kind of error-prone modification to files in tha quirky syntax.
>
> This is a bug that's been hanging around for a while.  The fix should
> finally be in current CVS, along with a few other updates mostly for
> a bit more intelligence about how hotplug changed in 2.5 ...

That's good, but IMHO there are several situations for hotplug to give some 
kind of support.

1. Scripts that need to run once, before or after modprobe. This is usually 
done with modules.conf (pre-install/post-install), but i would like to do 
that with hotplug also...

2. Scripts that need to run every time the device is plugged or unplugged, 
even if the driver is already loaded or not. That is the case of our ezusbmidi 
firmware loader.

BTW, there can be several drivers for the same device, i.e. 'usb-midi' is the 
OSS driver and 'snd-usb-audio' is the ALSA driver. Midiman MidisportNxN 
devices may work with both drivers, but some firmware is needed  first. The 
name 'ezusbmidi' for the script is neutral, and associated to the  EZ-USB 
devices, not the driver name.

I know another firmware for the same devices:
http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~ladischc/midisport_linux_firmware.html
That script is named 'midisport_fw', and i like that name.

Regards,
Pedro



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Re: should the module script be invoked every time?

[David Brownell]

Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas wrote:
> ...
>>
>>This is a bug that's been hanging around for a while.  The fix should
>>finally be in current CVS, along with a few other updates mostly for
>>a bit more intelligence about how hotplug changed in 2.5 ...
> 
> 
> That's good, but IMHO there are several situations for hotplug to give some 
> kind of support.

There are always new features that _could_ be added...

> 1. Scripts that need to run once, before or after modprobe. This is usually 
> done with modules.conf (pre-install/post-install), but i would like to do 
> that with hotplug also...

Why have two ways to do the same thing?  Hotplug deals with devices,
modutils deal with modules.  Having two ways to do something means
twice the testing, and exponential growth in the number of failure
modes as you keep adding other ways...


> 2. Scripts that need to run every time the device is plugged or unplugged, 
> even if the driver is already loaded or not. That is the case of our ezusbmidi 
> firmware loader.

As I said, the fact that it _hasn't_ been happening that way is just
a bug ... which should now be fixed.

- Dave



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Re: should the module script be invoked every time?

[Gene Cash]

David Brownell wrote:

> Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas wrote:
>
> > 2. Scripts that need to run every time the device is plugged or
> > unplugged, even if the driver is already loaded or not. That is the
> > case of our ezusbmidi firmware loader.
>
> As I said, the fact that it _hasn't_ been happening that way is just
> a bug ... which should now be fixed.

Why yes it is!!  I got the latest from CVS and now my "visor" script 
gets called every single time it shows up on the bus.  No action needed 
other than putting the script in /etc/hotplug/usb and making it 
executable.  :-)

It's fairly simple, I have a tk/tcl wrapper around the jpilot-sync 
output, to make a little progress window.

-gc

-- 
Gene Cash                   Server Technologies (Business Ops)
Phone: 407-458-5237         Oracle Support Services (Orlando, FL USA)



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Re: should the module script be invoked every time?

[Chris Weiss]

I'm new to the list, bringing up an old topic becasue I too had the same issue and
it doesn't seem to have been resolved on the list or in the docs.

  > >The script is now /etc/hotplug/usb/visor, since it's the visor module
  > >that supports the palms.
  >
  > If you give your script some other name, like 'palmsync' or something
  > else, your script shall run everytime you plug in the device.
  >

If you rename the module in distmap, the kernel module won't load.  But if the
kernel module is already loaded, the usermap won't get run at all.

The docs are WRONG on this! http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net/?selected=usb
"When your device support involves a kernel driver, instead of a purely user mode
driver, name the script after that driver. Similar scripts can trigger when you
connect a PDA, printer, or other device. "

This clearly implies that the script will run so long it has the same name as the
module...period.  no editing maps, no if's and's or but's.  This is wrong.

What needs to be done is copy the visor line from the distmap to the handmap,
renaming the module to your own name, then add the script of this new name.

Note that the usermap will NEVER get processed if the distmap or handmap sucessfully
do something usefull, but distmap and handmap will both always be processed.  From
looking at the *.agent scripts, it also seems as though this feature ONLY applies to
usb.



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Re: should the module script be invoked every time?

[David Brownell]

Chris Weiss wrote:
> I'm new to the list, bringing up an old topic becasue I too had the same issue and
> it doesn't seem to have been resolved on the list or in the docs.

The resolution should have been in the hotplug scripts, a while back.


>   > >The script is now /etc/hotplug/usb/visor, since it's the visor module
>   > >that supports the palms.
>   >
>   > If you give your script some other name, like 'palmsync' or something
>   > else, your script shall run everytime you plug in the device.
>   >
> 
> If you rename the module in distmap, the kernel module won't load.  But if the
> kernel module is already loaded, the usermap won't get run at all.

Distmap is only for 2.2, which doesn't have /lib/modules/*/modules.usbmap.


> The docs are WRONG on this! http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net/?selected=usb
> "When your device support involves a kernel driver, instead of a purely user mode
> driver, name the script after that driver. Similar scripts can trigger when you
> connect a PDA, printer, or other device. "

The docs say what should happen; but there were bugs in older
versions of the hotplug software.   If you have scripts that
don't do that, (a) update to the current software, (b) try to
reproduce this, then (c) if it still doesn't work, report a bug.




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Re: should the module script be invoked every time?

[Chris Weiss]

>The docs say what should happen; but there were bugs in older
>versions of the hotplug software.   If you have scripts that
>don't do that, (a) update to the current software, (b) try to
>reproduce this, then (c) if it still doesn't work, report a bug.

Being that I'm using debian woody (stable) (which for some reason is still using
2002_01_14) and Mandrake 9.1 (which i have not tested but uses 2002_04_01) would it
be to much to ask to add a note to the docs stating such?  Maybe even alert the
distro's that they are using old bugy version of your package?  My first thought
here was that hotplug was a dodgy package that doesn't work as advertized and no one
cares, only after bothering to correct this did I learn that the distro's are using
old and buggy versions of your software.

Anyone got a "non broken" deb package of this somewhere?  i'm still a bit weary of
compiliing things in deb to replace "core" functions (yes, I see hotplug as core).

Thanks



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Re: should the module script be invoked every time?

[David Brownell]

Chris Weiss wrote:
> 
> Being that I'm using debian woody (stable) (which for some reason is still using
> 2002_01_14) and Mandrake 9.1 (which i have not tested but uses 2002_04_01) would it
> be to much to ask to add a note to the docs stating such?  Maybe even alert the
> distro's that they are using old bugy version of your package? 

You can file bugs against those distros yourself ... :)


And as for doc updates, please send me (off-list) reasonably
specific changes you'd like to see -- at the level of URL and
paragraph that needs to mention such stuff.  I'll do them at
some point when I have a moment to spare for such.

- Dave



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Re: should the module script be invoked every time?

[Paul Hedderly]

On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 05:19:10PM +0000, Chris Weiss wrote:
> 
> Being that I'm using debian woody (stable) (which for some reason is still using
> 2002_01_14) and Mandrake 9.1 (which i have not tested but uses 2002_04_01) would it

I can only speak for Debian here. (I'm surprised that Mandrake 9.1 is
using such an old hotplug since 9.1 is quite recent...)

Debian Woody is, as you noted "stable". It is frozen and _only_ gets
updates for security issues and complete show-stopper bugs. That's it.

If you want newer, then you are free to run Testing or Unstable, or you
can recompile newer packages to run under woody. You _may_ find the
hotplug in testing/unstable (currently 0.0.20030117-7) runs fine on
woody without problem.

Oh, you _may_ find there are fixes to big issues in the
woody/updated/security archives. The main package version would not be
incremented, just the Debian release no.

But please don't complain that an old frozen distribution is old. That's
like complaining that the Pope is Catholic.

Oh, and what the distro's do with hotplug is not the hotplug projects
responsibility. They can't be expected to constantly keep up with what
the distros are using.

--
Paul

> be to much to ask to add a note to the docs stating such?  Maybe even alert the
> distro's that they are using old bugy version of your package?  My first thought
> here was that hotplug was a dodgy package that doesn't work as advertized and no one
> cares, only after bothering to correct this did I learn that the distro's are using
> old and buggy versions of your software.
> 
> Anyone got a "non broken" deb package of this somewhere?  i'm still a bit weary of
> compiliing things in deb to replace "core" functions (yes, I see hotplug as core).
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
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