Re: [linux-usb-devel] Re: [PATCH] hotplug usb.rc changes

Re: [linux-usb-devel] Re: [PATCH] hotplug usb.rc changes

[David Brownell]

Olaf Hering wrote:
> I missed /etc/sysconfig/hotplug in usb.rc, fixed patch:
> 
> - do not use /etc/sysconfig/usb anymore, use /etc/sysconfig/hotplug
>   instead

But is anything except USB using that?  This is an area it'd
be good to see RedHat, SuSE, and others agree, but I'd take
SuSE as a start.

Also, you're discarding the kernel setting for $DEBUG; maybe
it shouldn't be there, but if you want to discard that feature
a kernel patch should happen too.


> - better check if usb was successfully activated

That is, /proc/bus/usb/001 directory exists?  Yes, better!

There's still the issue of needing to get USB partly
started _very_ early in boot, for systems with only
USB input devices.

Have you looked at what issues would come up from
(optionally) running /etc/hotplug/usb.rc from system
startup, /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit (or whatever)?


> - add two new /etc/sysconfig/hotplug variables:
>   * use HOTPLUG_USB_HOSTCONTROLLER_LIST to load a fixed list of host
>     controller drivers
>   * use HOTPLUG_USB_STATIC_MODULES to load a fixed list of drivers
>     (for input)

Those seem like good things to keep in an /etc/sysconfig
file (and somewhere you had a Debian version, too).


I'll see about merging this, most of it looks fine.

- Dave





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Re: [linux-usb-devel] Re: [PATCH] hotplug usb.rc changes

[Bill Nottingham]

David Brownell (david-b@pacbell.net) said: 
> Olaf Hering wrote:
> > I missed /etc/sysconfig/hotplug in usb.rc, fixed patch:
> > 
> > - do not use /etc/sysconfig/usb anymore, use /etc/sysconfig/hotplug
> >   instead
> 
> But is anything except USB using that?  This is an area it'd
> be good to see RedHat, SuSE, and others agree, but I'd take
> SuSE as a start.

We just have the stock references to /etc/sysconfig/{pci,usb};
we don't use /etc/sysconfig/hotplug.

Bill


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Re: [linux-usb-devel] Re: [PATCH] hotplug usb.rc changes

[Olaf Hering]

 On Tue, Jun 10, Bill Nottingham wrote:

> David Brownell (david-b@pacbell.net) said: 
> > Olaf Hering wrote:
> > > I missed /etc/sysconfig/hotplug in usb.rc, fixed patch:
> > > 
> > > - do not use /etc/sysconfig/usb anymore, use /etc/sysconfig/hotplug
> > >   instead
> > 
> > But is anything except USB using that?  This is an area it'd
> > be good to see RedHat, SuSE, and others agree, but I'd take
> > SuSE as a start.
> 
> We just have the stock references to /etc/sysconfig/{pci,usb};
> we don't use /etc/sysconfig/hotplug.

I see no /etc/sysconfig/{pci,usb} on a redhat system, but hotplug is
installed.

Such a sysconfig file would make sense to add static drivers that must
be loaded at hotplug start, but that may not trigger events.

The hostcontroller list is maybe not needed, pci hotplug could take care
of this. The potential problem that I see with pci hotplug is, that it
does load all drivers for a system, it loads them in a random order
(unverified), and it could load the wrong ones (uhci/usb-uhci).
Loading buggy drivers could lead to crashes, loading them in random
order could reorder your network interfaces if there are more than one
kind of network card (eth0 could become eth1), and so on.
I have an ieee1394.rc script for that reason, just to avoid pci.rc
usage.

Further, we have a patch to beep on /dev/console when a driver is
loaded. And also a patch that allows more verbose logging of hotplug
events.
So we have now 4 users of such a /etc/sysconfig/hotplug file.

Now, Debian has its stuff in /etc/default/... Too bad that the standard
leaves the sysconfig stuff undefined.



Gruss Olaf

-- 
USB is for mice, FireWire is for men!


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Re: [linux-usb-devel] Re: [PATCH] hotplug usb.rc changes

[Bill Nottingham]

Olaf Hering (olh@suse.de) said: 
> > > But is anything except USB using that?  This is an area it'd
> > > be good to see RedHat, SuSE, and others agree, but I'd take
> > > SuSE as a start.
> > 
> > We just have the stock references to /etc/sysconfig/{pci,usb};
> > we don't use /etc/sysconfig/hotplug.
> 
> I see no /etc/sysconfig/{pci,usb} on a redhat system, but hotplug is
> installed.

We don't include ones, but the hotplug scripts we ship will use
the USB one if they it's there (the pci one is commented out,
sorry.)

Bill


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Re: [linux-usb-devel] Re: [PATCH] hotplug usb.rc changes

[Olaf Hering]

 On Wed, Jun 11, Bill Nottingham wrote:

> Olaf Hering (olh@suse.de) said: 
> > > > But is anything except USB using that?  This is an area it'd
> > > > be good to see RedHat, SuSE, and others agree, but I'd take
> > > > SuSE as a start.
> > > 
> > > We just have the stock references to /etc/sysconfig/{pci,usb};
> > > we don't use /etc/sysconfig/hotplug.
> > 
> > I see no /etc/sysconfig/{pci,usb} on a redhat system, but hotplug is
> > installed.
> 
> We don't include ones, but the hotplug scripts we ship will use
> the USB one if they it's there (the pci one is commented out,
> sorry.)

what values do they contain? It seems hotplug can perfectly work without
them.
And it would make much sense to load hid.o, mousedev.o and keybdev.o per
default anyway, so this x11 hack is obsolete. Or is there a reason why
one would not load the usb hid drivers? I dont see any.


Gruss Olaf

-- 
USB is for mice, FireWire is for men!


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Re: [linux-usb-devel] Re: [PATCH] hotplug usb.rc changes

[Bill Nottingham]

> > We don't include ones, but the hotplug scripts we ship will use
> > the USB one if they it's there (the pci one is commented out,
> > sorry.)
> 
> what values do they contain? It seems hotplug can perfectly work without
> them.

Whatever someone wants, I suppose. We just use the stock scripts that
refer to them.

> And it would make much sense to load hid.o, mousedev.o and keybdev.o per
> default anyway, so this x11 hack is obsolete. Or is there a reason why
> one would not load the usb hid drivers? I dont see any.

We actually load them outside of the usb hotplug framework.

Bill


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Re: [linux-usb-devel] Re: [PATCH] hotplug usb.rc changes

[David Brownell]

Bill Nottingham wrote:
>>>We don't include ones, but the hotplug scripts we ship will use
>>>the USB one if they it's there (the pci one is commented out,
>>>sorry.)
>>
>>what values do they contain? It seems hotplug can perfectly work without
>>them.
> 
> 
> Whatever someone wants, I suppose. We just use the stock scripts that
> refer to them.

And Olaf had the right idea to ship the /etc/sysconfig/* files that
are referenced.  I'm just thinking that just a "usb" file would be
enough; nothing much is shared between the different agents, and
having a "hotplug" file with only USB-specific options seems wrong.


>>And it would make much sense to load hid.o, mousedev.o and keybdev.o per
>>default anyway, so this x11 hack is obsolete. Or is there a reason why
>>one would not load the usb hid drivers? I dont see any.
> 
> 
> We actually load them outside of the usb hotplug framework.

Which is a bit of a problem in terms of getting convergence.  It'd
be good to have a standard way to start up USB, and that's exactly
what "/etc/hotplug/usb.rc start" was intended to do.

If I understand why RedHat's rc.sysinit does it that way, there are
a few reasons.  One is (a) to use "kudzu" static config data, which
knows various USB-specific, overlapping /etc/sysconfig/usb a bit.
The better (IMO) reason is (b) to ensure that USB keyboards/mice can
be used during system bootstrap, if the kernel (or its initrd) didn't
build them in.  That's early for "usb.rc start", since hotplug agents
often can't run that early (filesystems unmounted or readonly, etc).
And it also doesn't use the same conventions as "usb.rc" does.

Seems like we would win by having an "rc.usb boot" way for RC scripts
to solve that input device problem, calling it later to handle the
"coldplug" problem like "rc.usb start" does today (synthesizing the
events that couldn't be handled that early).

- Dave







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Re: [linux-usb-devel] Re: [PATCH] hotplug usb.rc changes

[Bill Nottingham]

David Brownell (david-b@pacbell.net) said: 
> > We actually load them outside of the usb hotplug framework.
> 
> Which is a bit of a problem in terms of getting convergence.  It'd
> be good to have a standard way to start up USB, and that's exactly
> what "/etc/hotplug/usb.rc start" was intended to do.
> 
> If I understand why RedHat's rc.sysinit does it that way, there are
> a few reasons.  One is (a) to use "kudzu" static config data, which
> knows various USB-specific, overlapping /etc/sysconfig/usb a bit.
> The better (IMO) reason is (b) to ensure that USB keyboards/mice can
> be used during system bootstrap, if the kernel (or its initrd) didn't
> build them in.  That's early for "usb.rc start", since hotplug agents
> often can't run that early (filesystems unmounted or readonly, etc).
> And it also doesn't use the same conventions as "usb.rc" does.

It's actually only for the second reason; so that the keyboard is
there if (for example) fsck fails.

Bill


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Re: [linux-usb-devel] Re: [PATCH] hotplug usb.rc changes

[David Brownell]

Bill Nottingham wrote:
> 
> It's actually only for the second reason; so that the keyboard is
> there if (for example) fsck fails.

So it looks like it'd be a win if "rc.usb boot" did that logic,
without the "coldplug" stuff to handle the system being only
partially booted.  RH-specific logic won't be necessary.

Of course there's still that issue of which HCDs to load;
Olaf's patch says that's what the /etc/sysconfig file holds.
RH currently uses /etc/modules.conf for such stuff ... and
a pure hotplug model would use interact with what PCI says
is actually present.

- Dave




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Re: [linux-usb-devel] Re: [PATCH] hotplug usb.rc changes

[Olaf Hering]

 On Thu, Jun 12, David Brownell wrote:

> Bill Nottingham wrote:
> >
> >It's actually only for the second reason; so that the keyboard is
> >there if (for example) fsck fails.
> 
> So it looks like it'd be a win if "rc.usb boot" did that logic,
> without the "coldplug" stuff to handle the system being only
> partially booted.  RH-specific logic won't be necessary.

Our runlevel S loads the usb stuff unconditionally like this:

#
# load usb drivers in runlevel S
#
case "${PREVLEVEL}${RUNLEVEL}" in
        N1|NS)
        test -f /etc/sysconfig/hotplug &&  . /etc/sysconfig/hotplug && test "$HOTPLUG_START_USB" = "yes" && {
        test -f /proc/cpuinfo || mount -n -t proc proc /proc 2>/dev/null
        test -d /proc/bus/usb || modprobe usbcore >/dev/null 2>&1
        mount usbdevfs >/dev/null 2>&1
        for i in $HOTPLUG_USB_HOSTCONTROLLER_LIST ;do echo -n $i" " ;modprobe $i >/dev/null 2>&1 ;done;echo
        sleep 3
        grep ^I: /proc/bus/usb/devices | grep HID && for i in input hid keybdev;do modprobe $i >/dev/null 2>&1 ;done
        }
        ;;
esac

This HOTPLUG_START_USB used to exist, but I'm not sure if we will leave
these HOTPLUG_START_{USB,IEEE1394,...} stuff for the next release. I
will probably remove it, have to think about it in the next days.

Well, maybe something like this could become part of a 'usb.rc boot' or
'usb.rc single' or something.

The only real issue is the /etc/sysconfig/ vs. /etc/default/
We should source both if they exist, it causes only one additional
stat() call.
The goal should be that the configuration is unified somehow, and not
spread all over /etc for the various distros.


Gruss Olaf

-- 
USB is for mice, FireWire is for men!


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