* Re: initial udev foray...successes and failures...
2003-12-18 9:13 initial udev foray...successes and failures Tupshin Harper
@ 2003-12-22 20:39 ` Greg KH
2003-12-22 22:41 ` Tupshin Harper
` (4 subsequent siblings)
5 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2003-12-22 20:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 01:13:27AM -0800, Tupshin Harper wrote:
> As a long time devfs user and MAKEDEV hater(mostly for aesthetic
> reason), I decided to bite the bullet and see how close to usable udev is.
>
> The platform:
> Debian Sid
> kernel 2.6.0-test11+
> hotplug that comes with sid
> udev 0.009 built for debian downloaded from: http://www.bofh.it/~md/debian/
>
> The scenario:
> the Debian udev package creates everything in /udev. I moved /dev out of
> the way, symlinked /udev to /dev and rebooted (ahhh...glorious optimism).
Wow, that's brave :)
> What worked:
> Most things, including (to my surprise) lvm2 which had been running on
> the devfs setup.
Yeah, lvm2 uses block devices, so it all should "just work". Glad to
see it does.
> What didn't:
> 1) anything that needed /dev/null
> 2) anything that needed /dev/random (and probably urandom...didn't check)
You need the misc sysfs patch that I posted to lkml and
linux-hotplug-devel a while ago. That will create those nodes for you.
> 3) anything other that single user mode, since /dev/tty[0-9] were not
> present ..just /dev/tty
That's odd. Do you have any tty devices in /sys/class/tty/ ? That's
what udev goes off of.
> What was odd:
> I have a number of ide hard drives in this machine(9). The first two
> (hda, and hdb) and their partitions showed up as symlinks to
> /dev/ide/host0/etc... The rest of them were not symlinks and were placed
> directly in /dev (e.g. /dev/hde and /dev/hde3).
>
> Despite these oddities, I was able to manually create /dev/null,
> /dev/random, and /dev/tty[0-9] and everything on my machine worked.
>
> So...given the limited information that seems to be available for udev,
> I have a few questions:
> 1) should the missing devices be created by udev? Is this a [known] problem?
Yes they should, as long as they are exported in sysfs somewhere.
> 2) Why are some drives symlinked and others not?
I don't know. What kind of udev.rules file did you use for this? I
think the debian package is trying to emulate devfs names, which I don't
necessarily think is the best idea, as they are not LSB compliant.
> 3) Does it make sense that the debian package operates on /udev and I'm
> testing it by creating a symlink to /dev? If not, how should things be done?
Right now it's good to play around in /udev. When udev matures, then it
will be ok to move it to use /dev. I don't think we are quite there
yet.
thanks for your report.
greg k-h
-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials.
Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's
Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin.
Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id\x1278&alloc_id371&op=click
_______________________________________________
Linux-hotplug-devel mailing list http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net
Linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-hotplug-devel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread* Re: initial udev foray...successes and failures...
2003-12-18 9:13 initial udev foray...successes and failures Tupshin Harper
2003-12-22 20:39 ` Greg KH
@ 2003-12-22 22:41 ` Tupshin Harper
2003-12-23 0:16 ` Greg KH
` (3 subsequent siblings)
5 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Tupshin Harper @ 2003-12-22 22:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
Greg KH wrote:
>On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 01:13:27AM -0800, Tupshin Harper wrote:
>
>
>>What didn't:
>>1) anything that needed /dev/null
>>2) anything that needed /dev/random (and probably urandom...didn't check)
>>
>>
>
>You need the misc sysfs patch that I posted to lkml and
>linux-hotplug-devel a while ago. That will create those nodes for you.
>
>
Can't seem to find it in the archives of either list ...maybe I'm just
blind...can you point me at it?
Also, is it a patch against kernel sources? Will it work against 2.6.0
final?
>
>
>>3) anything other that single user mode, since /dev/tty[0-9] were not
>>present ..just /dev/tty
>>
>>
>
>That's odd. Do you have any tty devices in /sys/class/tty/ ? That's
>what udev goes off of.
>
>
Yup...lots o stuf in /sys/class/tty: tty0-tty63 directories all
containing a "dev" file. tty0 (for example) contains dev with contents 4:0
>
>
>>What was odd:
>>I have a number of ide hard drives in this machine(9). The first two
>>(hda, and hdb) and their partitions showed up as symlinks to
>>/dev/ide/host0/etc... The rest of them were not symlinks and were placed
>>directly in /dev (e.g. /dev/hde and /dev/hde3).
>>
>>
>>
>>2) Why are some drives symlinked and others not?
>>
>>
>
>I don't know. What kind of udev.rules file did you use for this? I
>think the debian package is trying to emulate devfs names, which I don't
>necessarily think is the best idea, as they are not LSB compliant.
>
>
Ahhh...udev.rules only contains ide entries for hda-hdd. hda is:
NUMBER, BUS="ide", ID="0.0", NAME="ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/%D",
SYMLINK="hda%n"
Should there be one line for every conceivable IDE device?
-Tupshin
-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials.
Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's
Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin.
Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id\x1278&alloc_id371&op=click
_______________________________________________
Linux-hotplug-devel mailing list http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net
Linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-hotplug-devel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread* Re: initial udev foray...successes and failures...
2003-12-18 9:13 initial udev foray...successes and failures Tupshin Harper
2003-12-22 20:39 ` Greg KH
2003-12-22 22:41 ` Tupshin Harper
@ 2003-12-23 0:16 ` Greg KH
2003-12-23 1:05 ` Tupshin Harper
` (2 subsequent siblings)
5 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2003-12-23 0:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On Mon, Dec 22, 2003 at 02:41:44PM -0800, Tupshin Harper wrote:
> Greg KH wrote:
>
> >On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 01:13:27AM -0800, Tupshin Harper wrote:
> >
> >
> >>What didn't:
> >>1) anything that needed /dev/null
> >>2) anything that needed /dev/random (and probably urandom...didn't check)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >You need the misc sysfs patch that I posted to lkml and
> >linux-hotplug-devel a while ago. That will create those nodes for you.
> >
> >
> Can't seem to find it in the archives of either list ...maybe I'm just
> blind...can you point me at it?
ok, will post them over again to lkml and linux-hotplug-devel in a
minute.
> >>3) anything other that single user mode, since /dev/tty[0-9] were not
> >>present ..just /dev/tty
> >>
> >>
> >
> >That's odd. Do you have any tty devices in /sys/class/tty/ ? That's
> >what udev goes off of.
> >
> >
> Yup...lots o stuf in /sys/class/tty: tty0-tty63 directories all
> containing a "dev" file. tty0 (for example) contains dev with contents 4:0
Hm, so if you run the 'test.all' script in the test directory with the
'add' paramater, does it create the tty nodes? Check to see if debian
has a initscript that properly catches all of the dev nodes in sysfs
(look at the one in the udev release, or the test.all script for an
example of how to do this properly without having to know what kinds of
devices are in sysfs.)
> >>What was odd:
> >>I have a number of ide hard drives in this machine(9). The first two
> >>(hda, and hdb) and their partitions showed up as symlinks to
> >>/dev/ide/host0/etc... The rest of them were not symlinks and were placed
> >>directly in /dev (e.g. /dev/hde and /dev/hde3).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>2) Why are some drives symlinked and others not?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I don't know. What kind of udev.rules file did you use for this? I
> >think the debian package is trying to emulate devfs names, which I don't
> >necessarily think is the best idea, as they are not LSB compliant.
> >
> >
> Ahhh...udev.rules only contains ide entries for hda-hdd. hda is:
> NUMBER, BUS="ide", ID="0.0", NAME="ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/%D",
> SYMLINK="hda%n"
>
> Should there be one line for every conceivable IDE device?
If you want to name them something different from the kernel name, yes.
If not, the default kernel name will be used, which should work just
like without devfs or udev.
Hope this helps,
greg k-h
-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials.
Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's
Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin.
Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id\x1278&alloc_id371&op=click
_______________________________________________
Linux-hotplug-devel mailing list http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net
Linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-hotplug-devel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread* Re: initial udev foray...successes and failures...
2003-12-18 9:13 initial udev foray...successes and failures Tupshin Harper
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2003-12-23 0:16 ` Greg KH
@ 2003-12-23 1:05 ` Tupshin Harper
2003-12-23 1:09 ` Greg KH
2003-12-23 1:36 ` Tupshin Harper
5 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Tupshin Harper @ 2003-12-23 1:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
Greg KH wrote:
>On Mon, Dec 22, 2003 at 02:41:44PM -0800, Tupshin Harper wrote:
>
>
>>Can't seem to find it in the archives of either list ...maybe I'm just
>>blind...can you point me at it?
>>
>>
>
>ok, will post them over again to lkml and linux-hotplug-devel in a
>minute.
>
>
Thanks.
>>Yup...lots o stuf in /sys/class/tty: tty0-tty63 directories all
>>containing a "dev" file. tty0 (for example) contains dev with contents 4:0
>>
>>
>
>Hm, so if you run the 'test.all' script in the test directory with the
>'add' paramater, does it create the tty nodes? Check to see if debian
>has a initscript that properly catches all of the dev nodes in sysfs
>(look at the one in the udev release, or the test.all script for an
>example of how to do this properly without having to know what kinds of
>devices are in sysfs.)
>
>
>
Bug in debian's version...not present in stock udev-009.
>>Should there be one line for every conceivable IDE device?
>>
>>
>
>If you want to name them something different from the kernel name, yes.
>If not, the default kernel name will be used, which should work just
>like without devfs or udev.
>
>
What are your thoughts on the fact that this naming scheme limits you to
26 devices? I recall that one reason for the devfs /dev/ide/... approach
is that it didn't introduce any arbitrary device limitations. The
structure of /sys/bus/ide doesn't impose this limitation. Where does the
mapping from /sys/bus/ide/devices to /dev/hd? take place?
-Tupshin
-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials.
Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's
Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin.
Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id\x1278&alloc_id371&op=click
_______________________________________________
Linux-hotplug-devel mailing list http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net
Linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-hotplug-devel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread* Re: initial udev foray...successes and failures...
2003-12-18 9:13 initial udev foray...successes and failures Tupshin Harper
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2003-12-23 1:05 ` Tupshin Harper
@ 2003-12-23 1:09 ` Greg KH
2003-12-23 1:36 ` Tupshin Harper
5 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2003-12-23 1:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
On Mon, Dec 22, 2003 at 05:05:15PM -0800, Tupshin Harper wrote:
> What are your thoughts on the fact that this naming scheme limits you to
> 26 devices?
Do you have more than 26 ide devices in your system? The scsi names can
handle many more than 26 devices, if you have a lot of disks I suggest
you use scsi instead :)
Anyway, that's not a udev issue, sorry.
> I recall that one reason for the devfs /dev/ide/... approach
> is that it didn't introduce any arbitrary device limitations. The
> structure of /sys/bus/ide doesn't impose this limitation. Where does the
> mapping from /sys/bus/ide/devices to /dev/hd? take place?
In your udev.rules file. The kernel calls the device hd? and then your
udev.rules file tries to map that to a /dev/ide/... mapping.
thanks,
greg k-h
-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials.
Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's
Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin.
Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id\x1278&alloc_id371&op=click
_______________________________________________
Linux-hotplug-devel mailing list http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net
Linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-hotplug-devel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread* Re: initial udev foray...successes and failures...
2003-12-18 9:13 initial udev foray...successes and failures Tupshin Harper
` (4 preceding siblings ...)
2003-12-23 1:09 ` Greg KH
@ 2003-12-23 1:36 ` Tupshin Harper
5 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Tupshin Harper @ 2003-12-23 1:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-hotplug
Greg KH wrote:
>On Mon, Dec 22, 2003 at 05:05:15PM -0800, Tupshin Harper wrote:
>
>
>>What are your thoughts on the fact that this naming scheme limits you to
>>26 devices?
>>
>>
>
>Do you have more than 26 ide devices in your system? The scsi names can
>handle many more than 26 devices, if you have a lot of disks I suggest
>you use scsi instead :)
>
>
No...only 10 today. ;-)
>Anyway, that's not a udev issue, sorry.
>
>
Fair enough.
-Tupshin
-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials.
Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's
Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin.
Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id\x1278&alloc_id371&op=click
_______________________________________________
Linux-hotplug-devel mailing list http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net
Linux-hotplug-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-hotplug-devel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread