Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X

Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X

[Rene Herman]

On 08/22/2007 03:39 AM, José Luis Patiño Andrés wrote:

>> You have a SATA harddrive (Hitachi Travelstar 5K100 100GB SATA/2.5") and an
>> IDE (also known as PATA) DVD drive (LG GMA-4082N). That is, your disk
>> should be driven by the:
>>
>> "Intel ESB, ICH, PIIX3, PIIX4 PATA/SATA support"
>>
>> under the "Serial ATA (prod) and Parallel ATA (experimental) drivers" menu,
>> and it seems this driver should also take care of your DVD. Not sure from
>> your report what you are using -- first try with only that driver, and
>> nothing from the old "ATA/ATAPI/MFM/RLL support" menu selected.
>>
>> In that situation, your harddrive works, but your DVD does not?
> 
> Okay, now it's tested as you said. In fact, in this way with only the SATA 
> drivers activated and ATA/ATAPI support completely unselected, my HDD works 
> but my DVD not.

Okay. Jeff, Alan -- 2.6.20.15 apparently working. A few weeks ago there was 
another report of a DVD drive failing detection on pata_amd (my CD and DVD 
drives work fine on pata_amd). Did some ATAPI timeouts change or something?

He's using:

00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801GBM/GHM (ICH7 Family) Serial 
ATA Storage Controller IDE (rev 02) (prog-if 80 [Master])

> And so...
> 
>> If so, this should be fixed in the driver, but to get things working I
>> believe you may try with both the above driver for your harddisk and the
>> old IDE driver for the DVD:
>>
>> <*>   Enhanced IDE/MFM/RLL disk/cdrom/tape/floppy support
>> <*>     Include IDE/ATAPI CDROM support (NEW)
>> [*]     PCI IDE chipset support
>> [*]     Generic PCI bus-master DMA support
>> <*>       Intel PIIXn chipsets support
> 
> Checked.
> 
>> (do not select IDE/ATA-2 disk support)
> 
> Unselected.
> 
> Now, I have this kernel panic:
> ###################
> #VFS: cannot open root device "sda3" or unknown-block (0,0)
> #Please, append a correct "root=" boot option; here are the available 
> #partitions:
> #1600 4194302 hdc driver: ide-cdrom

Okay, makes sense, seems the new driver simply can't grab the SATA part 
anymore when the old driver already's got the IDE part -- I wasn't sure 
about that (not a SATA user myself -- just noticed your report due to 
noticing that previous one due to pata_amd...).

The old SATA driver available from the IDE menu also does not support your 
chip, so I don't believe there are any workarounds -- you'll need the issue 
fixed.

Rene.

Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X

[Kiko Piris]

On 22/08/2007 at 04:35 +0200, Rene Herman wrote:

> The old SATA driver available from the IDE menu also does not support your 
> chip, so I don't believe there are any workarounds -- you'll need the issue 
> fixed.

I had the same issue when I compiled 2.6.22 on my T60 (SATA_AHCI drives
my hd). I workarounded it selecting IDE_GENERIC as a module.

Worth a try…

-- 
Kiko
Private mail is preferred encrypted:
http://www.pirispons.net/pgpkey.html

Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X

[Alan Cox]

> The old SATA driver available from the IDE menu also does not support your 
> chip, so I don't believe there are any workarounds -- you'll need the issue 
> fixed.

What issue ?

>From the report its quite simple - enable the correct CONFIG_ATA based
drivers and it should all work fine.

Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X

[Rene Herman]

On 08/22/2007 01:23 PM, Alan Cox wrote:

>> The old SATA driver available from the IDE menu also does not support your 
>> chip, so I don't believe there are any workarounds -- you'll need the issue 
>> fixed.
> 
> What issue ?
> 
> From the report its quite simple - enable the correct CONFIG_ATA based
> drivers and it should all work fine.

He has a SATA harddrive and an IDE DVD drive. When he compiles with 
CONFIG_ATA_PIIX (a driver which advertises both SATA and PATA in its 
description) his drive works, his DVD does not. Is that not the correct 
driver? Does he need something else? How does he get his DVD to work?

Rene.

Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 05:48:52PM +0200, Rene Herman wrote:
> He has a SATA harddrive and an IDE DVD drive. When he compiles with 
> CONFIG_ATA_PIIX (a driver which advertises both SATA and PATA in its 
> description) his drive works, his DVD does not. Is that not the correct 
> driver? Does he need something else? How does he get his DVD to work?

Well of course the DVD should show up as /dev/sr0 or scd0 with the new
driver, not the /dev/hd? name.  And scsi cdrom support is required too.

--
Len Sorensen

Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X

[Rene Herman]

On 08/22/2007 06:23 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 05:48:52PM +0200, Rene Herman wrote:

>> He has a SATA harddrive and an IDE DVD drive. When he compiles with 
>> CONFIG_ATA_PIIX (a driver which advertises both SATA and PATA in its 
>> description) his drive works, his DVD does not. Is that not the correct 
>> driver? Does he need something else? How does he get his DVD to work?
> 
> Well of course the DVD should show up as /dev/sr0 or scd0 with the new
> driver, not the /dev/hd? name.  And scsi cdrom support is required too.

Obviously. Looking back through the report, him having SCSI CD-ROM support 
wasn't actually explicit so that might in fact be the problem but his 
self-compiled 2.6.20.15 worked and a 2.6.22 based Open SuSE Live CD does not 
(and he does have SCSI disk support, which suggests he will've likely also 
have thought of SCSI CD-ROM support) so it does not seem to be.

José: do you have SCSI CD-ROM support compiled in? What are the ATA/SCSI 
related messages in the output of "dmesg" when you compile with the 
CONFIG_ATA_PIIX driver, SCSI disk and SCSI CD-ROM support (and nothing from 
the old IDE menu)?

Rene.

Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X

[José Luis Patiño Andrés]

El Miércoles, 22 de Agosto de 2007 16:54, Rene Herman escribió:
> José: do you have SCSI CD-ROM support compiled in? What are the ATA/SCSI
> related messages in the output of "dmesg" when you compile with the
> CONFIG_ATA_PIIX driver, SCSI disk and SCSI CD-ROM support (and nothing from
> the old IDE menu)?
>
> Rene.

Hi again. I'm very sorry for the delay. I was on a travel since wednesday 22.

Okay Rene, I activated SCSI CD-ROM support in kernel config and now all works 
again. It's strange, because I never used this option to get my DVD device 
on.

Well, sorry for the inconvenience. Thanks for your help.

Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X

[Jan Engelhardt]

On Aug 28 2007 19:05, Rene Herman wrote:
>> Okay Rene, I activated SCSI CD-ROM support in kernel config and now all
>> works again. It's strange, because I never used this option to get my DVD
>> device on.
>
> Sheesh. How could anyone _not_ understand you need SCSI CD-ROM support for your
> IDE DVD-RW drive...

Welcome to the wonderful world of SCSIfying ATA. (Don't talk about 
ATAPI, USB/Firewire, it's a different matter.)


	Jan
-- 

Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 09:31:14PM +0200, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> Welcome to the wonderful world of SCSIfying ATA. (Don't talk about 
> ATAPI, USB/Firewire, it's a different matter.)

I guess eventually all disks will appear the same, just like on BSD and
many other systems (probably most other systems). :)

--
Len Sorensen

Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X

[Rene Herman]

On 08/30/2007 09:31 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

> On Aug 28 2007 19:05, Rene Herman wrote:

>> Sheesh. How could anyone _not_ understand you need SCSI CD-ROM support
>> for your IDE DVD-RW drive...
> 
> Welcome to the wonderful world of SCSIfying ATA. (Don't talk about ATAPI,
> USB/Firewire, it's a different matter.)

Well -- the world where ATA, SCSI, USB, Firewire and what have you are 
low-level drivers to a unifying storage layer is under non too obscure 
definitions sort of not non-wonderful...

Admittedly, the unifying layer is a little SCSI inspired but so is a lot of 
the hardware. As long as the users (the humans) resist SCSI inspiration, it 
should be safe.

Rene

Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X

[Greg Freemyer]

On 8/30/07, Rene Herman <rene.herman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 08/30/2007 09:31 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>
> > On Aug 28 2007 19:05, Rene Herman wrote:
>
> >> Sheesh. How could anyone _not_ understand you need SCSI CD-ROM support
> >> for your IDE DVD-RW drive...
> >
> > Welcome to the wonderful world of SCSIfying ATA. (Don't talk about ATAPI,
> > USB/Firewire, it's a different matter.)
>
> Well -- the world where ATA, SCSI, USB, Firewire and what have you are
> low-level drivers to a unifying storage layer is under non too obscure
> definitions sort of not non-wonderful...
>

USB / Firewire / FC / iSCSI are all SCSI transports and fit within the
SCSI subsystem by design.

ie. Just like ethernet, DSL, T-1, etc can all carry IP traffic with no
conceptual conflict, many media by design carry SCSI traffic.

The PATA and SATA physical layer typically carry ATA commands and
having them tied into the SCSI stack is an aberration that I hope will
be eliminated some day.

ATAPI is an exception.  Not sure where that would end up in a perfect world.

Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer
Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer

The Norcross Group
The Intersection of Evidence & Technology
http://www.norcrossgroup.com

Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 05:16:46PM -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:
> USB / Firewire / FC / iSCSI are all SCSI transports and fit within the
> SCSI subsystem by design.
> 
> ie. Just like ethernet, DSL, T-1, etc can all carry IP traffic with no
> conceptual conflict, many media by design carry SCSI traffic.
> 
> The PATA and SATA physical layer typically carry ATA commands and
> having them tied into the SCSI stack is an aberration that I hope will
> be eliminated some day.
> 
> ATAPI is an exception.  Not sure where that would end up in a perfect world.

But isn't SATA related to SAS?  And isn't SAS using SCSI commands?  And
if ATAPI is essentially SCSI commands, and everything other then disks
use ATAPI on ATA, then that makes ATA disks the odd ball, and mangling
it into line with everything else isn't that bad (since all other ATA
devices are close to SCSI already).

--
Len Sorensen

Re: Problems with IDE on linux 2.6.22.X

[Rene Herman]

On 08/30/2007 11:16 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

> On 8/30/07, Rene Herman <rene.herman@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Well -- the world where ATA, SCSI, USB, Firewire and what have you are
>> low-level drivers to a unifying storage layer is under non too obscure
>> definitions sort of not non-wonderful...
>>
> 
> USB / Firewire / FC / iSCSI are all SCSI transports and fit within the
> SCSI subsystem by design.
> 
> ie. Just like ethernet, DSL, T-1, etc can all carry IP traffic with no
> conceptual conflict, many media by design carry SCSI traffic.
> 
> The PATA and SATA physical layer typically carry ATA commands and
> having them tied into the SCSI stack is an aberration that I hope will
> be eliminated some day.
> 
> ATAPI is an exception.  Not sure where that would end up in a perfect world.

As said, if you make a bit of an effort to view the former SCSI stack as a 
unified storage midlayer the abberation becomes less abberational (if that's 
a word).

Real SCSI, the other SCSI transports and ATAPI would just use more of the 
common mid-layer than P/SATA would. I'd expect the way forward would be to 
just refactor things until someone notices that drivers/scsi is the wrong 
place for sd.c and sr.c and moves them to drivers/block or whereever.

Practically, the PATA driver gives me (almost) the same throughput as the 
old IDE driver does, and given that I need the former SCSI stack _anyway_ 
for my external USB harddrive, I don't see a pressing need to carry along 
yet another storage stack for my harddrive.

Rene.