* Re: regarding frequent head unload problem [not found] <48E08B99.1070508@kernel.org> @ 2008-09-29 9:00 ` Paul Rolland 2008-09-29 18:41 ` Paul Rolland 2008-09-29 11:44 ` Robert Krawitz 2008-09-29 21:12 ` Pascal Vandeputte 2 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Paul Rolland @ 2008-09-29 9:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Tejun Heo Cc: Ivan N. Zlatev, Robert Krawitz, Omar A, Pascal Vandeputte, Carlos Bessa, Andy Vaselaar, webmaster, Christian Wolf, A. Klitzing, Stefan Henriet, IDE/ATA development list, rol Hello, On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:02:33 +0900 Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org> wrote: > Hello, > > I'm writing to everyone who reported to me or linux-ide about frequent > head unload problem and the report is not yet committed to > storage-fixup.conf. > > I'm a bit worried about the explosion of reports because I really > wanna avoid creating false entries as they will increase power > consumption on Linux unnecessarily. I've just updated the Known > Issues wiki page. Here are the update parts. > > Note that modern laptop drives are supposed to unload frequently to > save power. Unless the unloading is excessive, disabling powersaving > is not a good idea. It seems that most modern drives are rated for > 600,000 load/unload cycles which translates to about two years of > uptime at 35 unloads per hour. Even when assuming continuous 12 hours > of usage everyday, this means the drive will only reach its rated > load/unload cycle limit after four years and shouldn't be considered > malfunctioning. Please only report cases where the expected uptime is > significantly lower than two years. > > ... Also, please include how many times the drive unloads the head > per-hour under nominal usage without any adjustment. I also have the following : [root@tux ~]# while : ; do smartctl --all /dev/sda | grep ^193; sleep 60; done 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 075 075 000 Old_age Always - 257584 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 075 075 000 Old_age Always - 257590 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 075 075 000 Old_age Always - 257593 and counting up... The machine is not an HP one, but a Dell Inspiron 6400. The disk is : /dev/sda: Model=Hitachi HTS542525K9SA00 , FwRev=BBFOC31P, SerialNo=071007BB0F00WDGA8U9C Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec Fixed DTR>10Mbs } RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=4 BuffType=DualPortCache, BuffSize=7229kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=?8? CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=268435455 IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120} PIO modes: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 DMA modes: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 AdvancedPM=yes: mode=0x80 (128) WriteCache=enabled Drive conforms to: unknown: ATA/ATAPI-2,3,4,5,6,7 * signifies the current active mode [root@tux ~]# hdparm -I /dev/sda /dev/sda: ATA device, with non-removable media Model Number: Hitachi HTS542525K9SA00 Serial Number: 071007BB0F00WDGA8U9C Firmware Revision: BBFOC31P Transport: Serial, ATA8-AST, SATA 1.0a, SATA II Extensions, SATA Rev 2.5; Revision: ATA8-AST T13 Project D1697 Revision 0b Standards: Supported: 8 7 6 5 Likely used: 8 Configuration: Logical max current cylinders 16383 16383 heads 16 16 sectors/track 63 63 -- CHS current addressable sectors: 16514064 LBA user addressable sectors: 268435455 LBA48 user addressable sectors: 488397168 device size with M = 1024*1024: 238475 MBytes device size with M = 1000*1000: 250059 MBytes (250 GB) Capabilities: LBA, IORDY(can be disabled) Queue depth: 32 Standby timer values: spec'd by Vendor, no device specific minimum R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16 Current = 8 Advanced power management level: 128 (0x80) Recommended acoustic management value: 128, current value: 254 DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6 Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 Cycle time: no flow control=120ns IORDY flow control=120ns Commands/features: Enabled Supported: * SMART feature set Security Mode feature set * Power Management feature set * Write cache * Look-ahead * Host Protected Area feature set * WRITE_BUFFER command * READ_BUFFER command * NOP cmd * DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE * Advanced Power Management feature set Power-Up In Standby feature set * SET_FEATURES required to spinup after power up SET_MAX security extension Automatic Acoustic Management feature set * 48-bit Address feature set * Device Configuration Overlay feature set * Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE * FLUSH_CACHE_EXT * SMART error logging * SMART self-test * General Purpose Logging feature set * WRITE_{DMA|MULTIPLE}_FUA_EXT * 64-bit World wide name * IDLE_IMMEDIATE with UNLOAD * WRITE_UNCORRECTABLE command * SATA-I signaling speed (1.5Gb/s) * Native Command Queueing (NCQ) * Host-initiated interface power management * Phy event counters * unknown 76[12] Non-Zero buffer offsets in DMA Setup FIS DMA Setup Auto-Activate optimization Device-initiated interface power management In-order data delivery * Software settings preservation * SMART Command Transport (SCT) feature set * SCT LBA Segment Access (AC2) * SCT Error Recovery Control (AC3) * SCT Features Control (AC4) * SCT Data Tables (AC5) Security: Master password revision code = 65534 supported not enabled not locked frozen not expired: security count supported: enhanced erase 106min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT. 108min for ENHANCED SECURITY ERASE UNIT. Checksum: correct The machine is running Linux 2.6.27-rc5. > Machines currently on the storage.fixup list are (or at least supposed > to be) the extreme cases where the drive unloads its head multiple > times per minute decreasing its life expectancy to under a year. > Please double check your machine falls into this category. Seems that I do :( Can I help in any way ? Regards, Paul -- Paul Rolland E-Mail : rol(at)witbe.net CTO - Witbe.net SA Tel. +33 (0)1 47 67 77 77 Les Collines de l'Arche Fax. +33 (0)1 47 67 77 99 F-92057 Paris La Defense RIPE : PR12-RIPE Please no HTML, I'm not a browser - Pas d'HTML, je ne suis pas un navigateur "Some people dream of success... while others wake up and work hard at it" There's no heavier burden than a great potential. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: regarding frequent head unload problem 2008-09-29 9:00 ` regarding frequent head unload problem Paul Rolland @ 2008-09-29 18:41 ` Paul Rolland 0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Paul Rolland @ 2008-09-29 18:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Tejun Heo Cc: Paul Rolland (ポール・ロラン), Ivan N. Zlatev, Robert Krawitz, Omar A, Pascal Vandeputte, Carlos Bessa, Andy Vaselaar, webmaster, Christian Wolf, A. Klitzing, Stefan Henriet, IDE/ATA development list Hello, On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:00:17 +0200 Paul Rolland (ポール・ロラン) <rol@witbe.net> wrote: > Hello, > > On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:02:33 +0900 > Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org> wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > I'm writing to everyone who reported to me or linux-ide about frequent > > head unload problem and the report is not yet committed to > > storage-fixup.conf. > > I also have the following : > [root@tux ~]# while : ; do smartctl --all /dev/sda | grep ^193; sleep 60; > done 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 075 075 000 Old_age Always - 257584 > 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 075 075 000 Old_age Always - 257590 > 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 075 075 000 Old_age Always - 257593 > Please note that hdparm -B255 /dev/sda also fixes the issue... Now added to rc.local ;) Regards, Paul -- Paul Rolland E-Mail : rol(at)witbe.net CTO - Witbe.net SA Tel. +33 (0)1 47 67 77 77 Les Collines de l'Arche Fax. +33 (0)1 47 67 77 99 F-92057 Paris La Defense RIPE : PR12-RIPE Please no HTML, I'm not a browser - Pas d'HTML, je ne suis pas un navigateur "Some people dream of success... while others wake up and work hard at it" Alcoholics Anonymous is when you get to drink under someone else's name. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: regarding frequent head unload problem [not found] <48E08B99.1070508@kernel.org> 2008-09-29 9:00 ` regarding frequent head unload problem Paul Rolland @ 2008-09-29 11:44 ` Robert Krawitz 2008-09-29 16:34 ` Omar A 2008-09-29 21:12 ` Pascal Vandeputte 2 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Robert Krawitz @ 2008-09-29 11:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Tejun Heo Cc: contact, aliencoder, pascal, carlos.bessa, andrew.vaselaar, webmaster, wolfchri, aklitzing, aladin7501-01, linux-ide Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:02:33 +0900 From: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org> Hello, I'm writing to everyone who reported to me or linux-ide about frequent head unload problem and the report is not yet committed to storage-fixup.conf. I'm a bit worried about the explosion of reports because I really wanna avoid creating false entries as they will increase power consumption on Linux unnecessarily. I've just updated the Known Issues wiki page. Here are the update parts. Note that modern laptop drives are supposed to unload frequently to save power. Unless the unloading is excessive, disabling powersaving is not a good idea. It seems that most modern drives are rated for 600,000 load/unload cycles which translates to about two years of uptime at 35 unloads per hour. Even when assuming continuous 12 hours of usage everyday, this means the drive will only reach its rated load/unload cycle limit after four years and shouldn't be considered malfunctioning. Please only report cases where the expected uptime is significantly lower than two years. ... Also, please include how many times the drive unloads the head per-hour under nominal usage without any adjustment. Machines currently on the storage.fixup list are (or at least supposed to be) the extreme cases where the drive unloads its head multiple times per minute decreasing its life expectancy to under a year. Please double check your machine falls into this category. Mine was unloading multiple times per minute. It had accumulated 70,000 cycles within the first month or two of use. -- Robert Krawitz <rlk@alum.mit.edu> Tall Clubs International -- http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2 Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail lpf@uunet.uu.net Project lead for Gutenprint -- http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works." --Eric Crampton ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: regarding frequent head unload problem 2008-09-29 11:44 ` Robert Krawitz @ 2008-09-29 16:34 ` Omar A 0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Omar A @ 2008-09-29 16:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Krawitz Cc: Tejun Heo, contact, pascal, carlos.bessa, andrew.vaselaar, webmaster, wolfchri, aklitzing, aladin7501-01, linux-ide Hi, My HD seems to unload several times a minute. root@omar-laptop:~# while : ; do smartctl --all /dev/sda | grep ^193; sleep 60; done 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 199 199 000 Old_age Always - 3249 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 199 199 000 Old_age Always - 3251 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 199 199 000 Old_age Always - 3251 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 199 199 000 Old_age Always - 3253 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 199 199 000 Old_age Always - 3256 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 199 199 000 Old_age Always - 3258 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 199 199 000 Old_age Always - 3262 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 199 199 000 Old_age Always - 3264 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 199 199 000 Old_age Always - 3266 root@omar-laptop:~# hdparm -I /dev/sda /dev/sda: ATA device, with non-removable media Model Number: WDC WD2500BEVS-75UST0 Serial Number: WD-WXE708HR3348 Firmware Revision: 01.01A01 Standards: Supported: 8 7 6 5 Likely used: 8 Configuration: Logical max current cylinders 16383 16383 heads 16 16 sectors/track 63 63 -- CHS current addressable sectors: 16514064 LBA user addressable sectors: 268435455 LBA48 user addressable sectors: 488397168 device size with M = 1024*1024: 238475 MBytes device size with M = 1000*1000: 250059 MBytes (250 GB) Capabilities: LBA, IORDY(can be disabled) Queue depth: 32 Standby timer values: spec'd by Standard, with device specific minimum R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16 Current = 8 Advanced power management level: 128 Recommended acoustic management value: 128, current value: 254 DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6 Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 Cycle time: no flow control=120ns IORDY flow control=120ns Commands/features: Enabled Supported: * SMART feature set Security Mode feature set * Power Management feature set * Write cache * Look-ahead * Host Protected Area feature set * WRITE_BUFFER command * READ_BUFFER command * NOP cmd * DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE * Advanced Power Management feature set SET_MAX security extension * Automatic Acoustic Management feature set * 48-bit Address feature set * Device Configuration Overlay feature set * Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE * FLUSH_CACHE_EXT * SMART error logging * SMART self-test * General Purpose Logging feature set * WRITE_{DMA|MULTIPLE}_FUA_EXT * 64-bit World wide name * IDLE_IMMEDIATE with UNLOAD * Segmented DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE * SATA-I signaling speed (1.5Gb/s) * Native Command Queueing (NCQ) * Host-initiated interface power management * Phy event counters DMA Setup Auto-Activate optimization Device-initiated interface power management * Software settings preservation * SMART Command Transport (SCT) feature set * SCT Long Sector Access (AC1) * SCT LBA Segment Access (AC2) * SCT Error Recovery Control (AC3) * SCT Features Control (AC4) * SCT Data Tables (AC5) unknown 206[12] (vendor specific) unknown 206[13] (vendor specific) Security: Master password revision code = 65534 supported not enabled not locked frozen not expired: security count not supported: enhanced erase 92min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT. Logical Unit WWN Device Identifier: 50014ee25720269e NAA : 5 IEEE OUI : 14ee Unique ID : 25720269e Checksum: correct This is a Dell Inspiron 1318 2.6.24-19-generic #1 SMP Wed Aug 20 22:56:21 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux root@omar-laptop:~# smartctl --all /dev/sda smartctl version 5.37 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Device Model: WDC WD2500BEVS-75UST0 Serial Number: WD-WXE708HR3348 Firmware Version: 01.01A01 User Capacity: 250,059,350,016 bytes Device is: Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall] ATA Version is: 8 ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated Local Time is: Mon Sep 29 18:32:08 2008 CEST SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED General SMART Values: Offline data collection status: (0x00) Offline data collection activity was never started. Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled. Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run. Total time to complete Offline data collection: (9180) seconds. Offline data collection capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate. Auto Offline data collection on/off support. Suspend Offline collection upon new command. Offline surface scan supported. Self-test supported. Conveyance Self-test supported. Selective Self-test supported. SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering power-saving mode. Supports SMART auto save timer. Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. General Purpose Logging supported. Short self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes. Extended self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 110) minutes. Conveyance self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes. SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 200 200 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0003 188 187 021 Pre-fail Always - 1600 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 118 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 200 200 140 Pre-fail Always - 0 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000e 100 253 051 Old_age Always - 0 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 161 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0012 100 100 051 Old_age Always - 0 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0012 100 253 051 Old_age Always - 0 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 95 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 9 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 199 199 000 Old_age Always - 3274 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 115 104 000 Old_age Always - 32 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x003e 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0008 100 253 051 Old_age Offline - 0 240 Head_Flying_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 190 241 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 195 195 000 Old_age Always - 5763852624323 242 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 522340900 SMART Error Log Version: 1 No Errors Logged SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 Num Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error # 1 Short offline Completed without error 00% 4 - # 2 Short offline Completed without error 00% 1 - # 3 Short offline Completed without error 00% 0 - # 4 Short offline Completed without error 00% 0 - SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1 SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS 1 0 0 Not_testing 2 0 0 Not_testing 3 0 0 Not_testing 4 0 0 Not_testing 5 0 0 Not_testing Selective self-test flags (0x0): After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk. If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay. Hope this helps. Best Regards On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 1:44 PM, Robert Krawitz <rlk@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:02:33 +0900 > From: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org> > > Hello, > > I'm writing to everyone who reported to me or linux-ide about frequent > head unload problem and the report is not yet committed to > storage-fixup.conf. > > I'm a bit worried about the explosion of reports because I really > wanna avoid creating false entries as they will increase power > consumption on Linux unnecessarily. I've just updated the Known > Issues wiki page. Here are the update parts. > > Note that modern laptop drives are supposed to unload frequently to > save power. Unless the unloading is excessive, disabling powersaving > is not a good idea. It seems that most modern drives are rated for > 600,000 load/unload cycles which translates to about two years of > uptime at 35 unloads per hour. Even when assuming continuous 12 hours > of usage everyday, this means the drive will only reach its rated > load/unload cycle limit after four years and shouldn't be considered > malfunctioning. Please only report cases where the expected uptime is > significantly lower than two years. > > ... Also, please include how many times the drive unloads the head > per-hour under nominal usage without any adjustment. > > Machines currently on the storage.fixup list are (or at least supposed > to be) the extreme cases where the drive unloads its head multiple > times per minute decreasing its life expectancy to under a year. > Please double check your machine falls into this category. > > Mine was unloading multiple times per minute. It had accumulated > 70,000 cycles within the first month or two of use. > > -- > Robert Krawitz <rlk@alum.mit.edu> > > Tall Clubs International -- http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2 > Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail lpf@uunet.uu.net > Project lead for Gutenprint -- http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net > > "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works." > --Eric Crampton > -- Am I the Alien?? I guess we will never know :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: regarding frequent head unload problem [not found] <48E08B99.1070508@kernel.org> 2008-09-29 9:00 ` regarding frequent head unload problem Paul Rolland 2008-09-29 11:44 ` Robert Krawitz @ 2008-09-29 21:12 ` Pascal Vandeputte 2 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Pascal Vandeputte @ 2008-09-29 21:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Tejun Heo Cc: Ivan N. Zlatev, Robert Krawitz, Omar A, Carlos Bessa, Andy Vaselaar, webmaster, Christian Wolf, A. Klitzing, Stefan Henriet, IDE/ATA development list Tejun Heo wrote: > Hello, > > I'm writing to everyone who reported to me or linux-ide about frequent > head unload problem and the report is not yet committed to > storage-fixup.conf. > > I'm a bit worried about the explosion of reports because I really > wanna avoid creating false entries as they will increase power > consumption on Linux unnecessarily. [...] Hi, I understand your concern. It mainly comes down to how much earlier your battery is drained I guess (without taking the "green" aspect into account). Would anyone have any numbers on that? If not, we could do a test ourselves (torturing our drives for a few hours extra, percentage-wise the extra wear and tear is limited). The amount of power saved will probably differ between drive manufacturers & models as well. My gut feeling is that it won't make that much of a difference, but it's indeed something to think about. Greetings, Pascal ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
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2008-09-29 9:00 ` regarding frequent head unload problem Paul Rolland
2008-09-29 18:41 ` Paul Rolland
2008-09-29 11:44 ` Robert Krawitz
2008-09-29 16:34 ` Omar A
2008-09-29 21:12 ` Pascal Vandeputte
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