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From: Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>
To: Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Szabolcs Szakacsits <szaka@ntfs-3g.com>,
	Grant Grundler <grundler@google.com>,
	Linux IDE mailing list <linux-ide@vger.kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Jens Axboe <jens.axboe@oracle.com>,
	Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead.org>
Subject: Re: Implementing NVMHCI...
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 06:23:51 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <49E46437.5000804@garzik.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <49E45E9C.1020105@redhat.com>

Avi Kivity wrote:
> Well, no one is talking about 64KB granularity for in-core files.  Like 
> you noticed, Windows uses the mmu page size.  We could keep doing that, 
> and still have 16KB+ sector sizes.  It just means a RMW if you don't 
> happen to have the adjoining clean pages in cache.
> 
> Sure, on a rotating disk that's a disaster, but we're talking SSD here, 
> so while you're doubling your access time, you're doubling a fairly 
> small quantity.  The controller would do the same if it exposed smaller 
> sectors, so there's no huge loss.
> 
> We still lose on disk storage efficiency, but I'm guessing that a modern 
> tree with some object files with debug information and a .git directory 
> it won't be such a great hit.  For more mainstream uses, it would be 
> negligible.


Speaking of RMW...    in one sense, we have to deal with RMW anyway. 
Upcoming ATA hard drives will be configured with a normal 512b sector 
API interface, but underlying physical sector size is 1k or 4k.

The disk performs the RMW for us, but we must be aware of physical 
sector size in order to determine proper alignment of on-disk data, to 
minimize RMW cycles.

At the moment, it seems like most of the effort to get these ATA devices 
to perform efficiently is in getting partition / RAID stripe offsets set 
up properly.

So perhaps for NVMHCI we could
(a) hardcode NVM sector size maximum at 4k
(b) do RMW in the driver for sector size >4k, and
(c) export information indicating the true sector size, in a manner 
similar to how the ATA driver passes that info to userland partitioning 
tools.

	Jeff




  reply	other threads:[~2009-04-14 10:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 45+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20090412091228.GA29937@elte.hu>
2009-04-12 15:14 ` Implementing NVMHCI Szabolcs Szakacsits
2009-04-12 15:20   ` Alan Cox
2009-04-12 16:15     ` Avi Kivity
2009-04-12 17:11       ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-13  6:32         ` Avi Kivity
2009-04-13 15:10           ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-13 15:38             ` James Bottomley
2009-04-14  7:22             ` Andi Kleen
2009-04-14 10:07               ` Avi Kivity
2009-04-14  9:59             ` Avi Kivity
2009-04-14 10:23               ` Jeff Garzik [this message]
2009-04-14 10:37                 ` Avi Kivity
2009-04-14 11:45                   ` Jeff Garzik
2009-04-14 11:58                     ` Szabolcs Szakacsits
2009-04-17 22:45                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2009-04-14 12:08                     ` Avi Kivity
2009-04-14 12:21                       ` Jeff Garzik
2009-04-25  8:26                 ` Pavel Machek
2009-04-12 15:41   ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-12 17:02     ` Robert Hancock
2009-04-12 17:20       ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-12 18:35         ` Robert Hancock
2009-04-13 11:18         ` Avi Kivity
2009-04-12 17:23     ` James Bottomley
     [not found]     ` <6934efce0904141052j3d4f87cey9fc4b802303aa73b@mail.gmail.com>
2009-04-15  6:37       ` Artem Bityutskiy
2009-04-30 22:51         ` Jörn Engel
2009-04-30 23:36           ` Jeff Garzik
2009-04-11 17:33 Jeff Garzik
2009-04-11 19:32 ` Alan Cox
2009-04-11 19:52   ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-11 20:21     ` Jeff Garzik
2009-04-11 21:49     ` Grant Grundler
2009-04-11 22:33       ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-12  5:08         ` Leslie Rhorer
2009-04-11 23:25       ` Alan Cox
2009-04-11 23:51         ` Jeff Garzik
2009-04-12  0:49           ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-12  1:59             ` Jeff Garzik
2009-04-12  1:15         ` david
2009-04-12  3:13           ` Linus Torvalds
2009-04-12 14:23         ` Mark Lord
2009-04-12 17:29           ` Jeff Garzik
2009-04-11 19:54   ` Jeff Garzik
2009-04-11 21:08     ` John Stoffel
2009-04-11 21:31       ` John Stoffel

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