* Random shutdown of disks using sata_mv
@ 2009-12-01 12:15 Caspar Smit
2009-12-01 14:29 ` Simon Jackson
2009-12-01 15:45 ` saeed bishara
0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Caspar Smit @ 2009-12-01 12:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-ide
Hi,
I'm having a problem where in random one of my disks shuts
down and is disconnected from the linux kernel. In other words I have to
reboot the system or physically unplug/replug the disk to get it to work
again.
I will provide my configuration:
SuperMicro
SC-216 chassis (24 bay 2,5" disks)
24x Seagate ST9500420AS 500Gb
7200 RPM Hard Drives
3x SuperMicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 (SATA Controller
using the sata_mv kernel driver)
I use Debian Lenny 5.0 and
kernel: linux-image-2.6.30-bpo.2-amd64
(2.6.30-8~bpo50+1) from the
backports repository.
The symptom is that after a while of
operation a disk is shut down and kicked out of a RAID set. It doesn't
matter if there is load or not on the system.
The logging
says:
sd 11:0:0:0: [sdk] Unhandled error code
sd 11:0:0:0:
Result: hostbyte=DID_BAD_TARGET driverbyte=DRIVER_OK
sd 11:0:0:0:
end_request: I/O error, dev sdk, sector 0
In this case sdk,
but it happens to all disks.
Then the disk is not readable by the
system anymore.
When I check the disk for errors
(badblocks/smart) in another system it doesn't give any errors.
I
only have this with 2,5" systems.
Is this a sata_mv
problem? A disk problem? or anything else?
I can provide more info if
needed.
Kind regards,
Caspar Smit
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* RE: Random shutdown of disks using sata_mv
2009-12-01 12:15 Random shutdown of disks using sata_mv Caspar Smit
@ 2009-12-01 14:29 ` Simon Jackson
2009-12-15 5:38 ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-01 15:45 ` saeed bishara
1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Simon Jackson @ 2009-12-01 14:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Caspar Smit, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org
We are investigating a similar type of problem seen on several of our systems.
Seemingly at random (though some systems seem more susceptible than others) we see the ata link reset and subsequently there is a FAILED TO IDENTIFY error logged. smartctl is unable to get information from the drive and a power cycle of the drive is required to bring it back on line.
I would be interested to know if the ata level errors are similar to those we are seeing.
-----Original Message-----
From: linux-ide-owner@vger.kernel.org [mailto:linux-ide-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Caspar Smit
Sent: 01 December 2009 12:16
To: linux-ide@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Random shutdown of disks using sata_mv
Hi,
I'm having a problem where in random one of my disks shuts
down and is disconnected from the linux kernel. In other words I have to
reboot the system or physically unplug/replug the disk to get it to work
again.
I will provide my configuration:
SuperMicro
SC-216 chassis (24 bay 2,5" disks)
24x Seagate ST9500420AS 500Gb
7200 RPM Hard Drives
3x SuperMicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 (SATA Controller
using the sata_mv kernel driver)
I use Debian Lenny 5.0 and
kernel: linux-image-2.6.30-bpo.2-amd64
(2.6.30-8~bpo50+1) from the
backports repository.
The symptom is that after a while of
operation a disk is shut down and kicked out of a RAID set. It doesn't
matter if there is load or not on the system.
The logging
says:
sd 11:0:0:0: [sdk] Unhandled error code
sd 11:0:0:0:
Result: hostbyte=DID_BAD_TARGET driverbyte=DRIVER_OK
sd 11:0:0:0:
end_request: I/O error, dev sdk, sector 0
In this case sdk,
but it happens to all disks.
Then the disk is not readable by the
system anymore.
When I check the disk for errors
(badblocks/smart) in another system it doesn't give any errors.
I
only have this with 2,5" systems.
Is this a sata_mv
problem? A disk problem? or anything else?
I can provide more info if
needed.
Kind regards,
Caspar Smit
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Random shutdown of disks using sata_mv
2009-12-01 12:15 Random shutdown of disks using sata_mv Caspar Smit
2009-12-01 14:29 ` Simon Jackson
@ 2009-12-01 15:45 ` saeed bishara
1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: saeed bishara @ 2009-12-01 15:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Caspar Smit; +Cc: linux-ide
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Caspar Smit <c.smit@truebit.nl> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm having a problem where in random one of my disks shuts
> down and is disconnected from the linux kernel. In other words I have to
> reboot the system or physically unplug/replug the disk to get it to work
> again.
>
> I will provide my configuration:
>
> SuperMicro
> SC-216 chassis (24 bay 2,5" disks)
> 24x Seagate ST9500420AS 500Gb
> 7200 RPM Hard Drives
> 3x SuperMicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 (SATA Controller
> using the sata_mv kernel driver)
>
> I use Debian Lenny 5.0 and
> kernel: linux-image-2.6.30-bpo.2-amd64
> (2.6.30-8~bpo50+1) from the
> backports repository.
>
> The symptom is that after a while of
> operation a disk is shut down and kicked out of a RAID set. It doesn't
> matter if there is load or not on the system.
>
> The logging
> says:
>
> sd 11:0:0:0: [sdk] Unhandled error code
> sd 11:0:0:0:
> Result: hostbyte=DID_BAD_TARGET driverbyte=DRIVER_OK
> sd 11:0:0:0:
> end_request: I/O error, dev sdk, sector 0
This part of the log doesn't show any message from the libata nor the
sata_mv drivers.
can you send the whole system log?
>
> In this case sdk,
> but it happens to all disks.
> Then the disk is not readable by the
> system anymore.
>
> When I check the disk for errors
> (badblocks/smart) in another system it doesn't give any errors.
> I
> only have this with 2,5" systems.
>
> Is this a sata_mv
> problem? A disk problem? or anything else?
> I can provide more info if
> needed.
>
> Kind regards,
> Caspar Smit
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* RE: Random shutdown of disks using sata_mv
@ 2009-12-02 10:40 Caspar Smit
2009-12-02 15:54 ` saeed bishara
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Caspar Smit @ 2009-12-02 10:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Simon Jackson; +Cc: linux-ide@vger.kernel.org
Hi Simon,
We are not experiencing that "FAILED TO
IDENTIFY" error.
Kind regards,
Caspar
> We are investigating a similar type of problem seen on several
of
our
> systems.
> Seemingly at random (though some
systems
seem more susceptible than
> others) we see the ata
link reset and
subsequently there is a FAILED TO
> IDENTIFY
error logged.
smartctl is unable to get information from the
> drive and a power
cycle of the drive is required to bring it
back on line.
>
> I would be interested to know if the
ata level errors are similar
to those
> we are seeing.
>
>
>
-----Original Message-----
>
From:
linux-ide-owner@vger.kernel.org
>
[mailto:linux-ide-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Caspar Smit
> Sent: 01 December 2009 12:16
> To:
linux-ide@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Random shutdown of disks
using sata_mv
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm having a problem where in random one of my disks shuts
> down and is disconnected from the linux kernel. In other words I
have to
> reboot the system or physically unplug/replug the
disk
to get it to work
> again.
>
> I will
provide my
configuration:
>
> SuperMicro
>
SC-216 chassis
(24 bay 2,5" disks)
> 24x Seagate
ST9500420AS 500Gb
>
7200 RPM Hard Drives
> 3x
SuperMicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 (SATA
Controller
> using the sata_mv
kernel driver)
>
>
I use Debian Lenny 5.0 and
> kernel:
linux-image-2.6.30-bpo.2-amd64
>
(2.6.30-8~bpo50+1) from the
> backports repository.
>
> The symptom is that
after a while of
> operation a
disk is shut down and kicked out of
a RAID set. It doesn't
>
matter if there is load or not on the
system.
>
>
The logging
> says:
>
> sd 11:0:0:0: [sdk]
Unhandled error code
> sd 11:0:0:0:
> Result:
hostbyte=DID_BAD_TARGET driverbyte=DRIVER_OK
> sd
11:0:0:0:
> end_request: I/O error, dev sdk, sector 0
>
> In this case sdk,
> but it happens to all
disks.
> Then the disk is not readable by the
> system
anymore.
>
> When I check the disk for errors
>
(badblocks/smart) in another system it doesn't give any
errors.
>
I
> only have this with 2,5"
systems.
>
> Is
this a sata_mv
> problem? A
disk problem? or anything else?
> I can provide more info if
> needed.
>
>
Kind regards,
> Caspar
Smit
>
> --
> To
unsubscribe from this list:
send the line "unsubscribe
linux-ide" in
> the body
of a message to
majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo
info at
http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Random shutdown of disks using sata_mv
2009-12-02 10:40 Caspar Smit
@ 2009-12-02 15:54 ` saeed bishara
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: saeed bishara @ 2009-12-02 15:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Caspar Smit; +Cc: Simon Jackson, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org
the following lines from the kern.log:
Nov 24 23:03:23 supernas02 kernel: [131523.808631] ata19.00: exception
Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x6 frozen
Nov 24 23:03:23 supernas02 kernel: [131523.808690] ata19.00: cmd
b0/da:00:00:4f:c2/00:00:00:00:00/00 tag 0
Nov 24 23:03:23 supernas02 kernel: [131523.808691] res
40/00:01:01:4f:c2/00:00:00:00:00/00 Emask 0x4 (timeout)
Nov 24 23:03:23 supernas02 kernel: [131523.808770] ata19.00: status: { DRDY }
Nov 24 23:03:23 supernas02 kernel: [131523.808801] ata19: hard resetting link
Nov 24 23:03:28 supernas02 kernel: [131529.324010] ata19: link is slow
to respond, please be patient (ready=0)
Nov 24 23:03:33 supernas02 kernel: [131533.860010] ata19: SRST failed
(errno=-16)
Nov 24 23:03:33 supernas02 kernel: [131533.860038] ata19: hard resetting link
Nov 24 23:03:38 supernas02 kernel: [131539.376009] ata19: link is slow
to respond, please be patient (ready=0)
Nov 24 23:03:43 supernas02 kernel: [131543.912006] ata19: SRST failed
(errno=-16)
Nov 24 23:03:43 supernas02 kernel: [131543.912033] ata19: hard resetting link
Nov 24 23:03:48 supernas02 kernel: [131549.428010] ata19: link is slow
to respond, please be patient (ready=0)
Nov 24 23:04:18 supernas02 kernel: [131578.940012] ata19: SRST failed
(errno=-16)
Nov 24 23:04:18 supernas02 kernel: [131578.940048] ata19: limiting
SATA link speed to 1.5 Gbps
Nov 24 23:04:18 supernas02 kernel: [131578.940077] ata19: hard resetting link
Nov 24 23:04:23 supernas02 kernel: [131583.952009] ata19: SRST failed
(errno=-16)
Nov 24 23:04:23 supernas02 kernel: [131583.958191] ata19: reset
failed, giving up
Nov 24 23:04:23 supernas02 kernel: [131583.958218] ata19.00: disabled
Nov 24 23:04:23 supernas02 kernel: [131583.958253] ata19: EH complete
means that a timeout error occurred, the after then, the disk didn't respond.
is it the same disks that fails all the time?
saeed
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Caspar Smit <c.smit@truebit.nl> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Simon,
>
> We are not experiencing that "FAILED TO
> IDENTIFY" error.
>
> Kind regards,
> Caspar
>
>
>> We are investigating a similar type of problem seen on several
> of
> our
>> systems.
>> Seemingly at random (though some
> systems
> seem more susceptible than
>> others) we see the ata
> link reset and
> subsequently there is a FAILED TO
>> IDENTIFY
> error logged.
> smartctl is unable to get information from the
>> drive and a power
> cycle of the drive is required to bring it
> back on line.
>>
>> I would be interested to know if the
> ata level errors are similar
> to those
>> we are seeing.
>>
>>
>>
> -----Original Message-----
>>
> From:
> linux-ide-owner@vger.kernel.org
>>
> [mailto:linux-ide-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Caspar Smit
>> Sent: 01 December 2009 12:16
>> To:
> linux-ide@vger.kernel.org
>> Subject: Random shutdown of disks
> using sata_mv
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>
>> I'm having a problem where in random one of my disks shuts
>> down and is disconnected from the linux kernel. In other words I
> have to
>> reboot the system or physically unplug/replug the
> disk
> to get it to work
>> again.
>>
>> I will
> provide my
> configuration:
>>
>> SuperMicro
>>
> SC-216 chassis
> (24 bay 2,5" disks)
>> 24x Seagate
> ST9500420AS 500Gb
>>
> 7200 RPM Hard Drives
>> 3x
> SuperMicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 (SATA
> Controller
>> using the sata_mv
> kernel driver)
>>
>>
> I use Debian Lenny 5.0 and
>> kernel:
> linux-image-2.6.30-bpo.2-amd64
>>
> (2.6.30-8~bpo50+1) from the
>> backports repository.
>>
>> The symptom is that
> after a while of
>> operation a
> disk is shut down and kicked out of
> a RAID set. It doesn't
>>
> matter if there is load or not on the
> system.
>>
>>
> The logging
>> says:
>>
>> sd 11:0:0:0: [sdk]
> Unhandled error code
>> sd 11:0:0:0:
>> Result:
> hostbyte=DID_BAD_TARGET driverbyte=DRIVER_OK
>> sd
> 11:0:0:0:
>> end_request: I/O error, dev sdk, sector 0
>>
>
>> In this case sdk,
>> but it happens to all
> disks.
>> Then the disk is not readable by the
>> system
> anymore.
>>
>> When I check the disk for errors
>>
> (badblocks/smart) in another system it doesn't give any
> errors.
>>
> I
>> only have this with 2,5"
> systems.
>>
>> Is
> this a sata_mv
>> problem? A
> disk problem? or anything else?
>> I can provide more info if
>> needed.
>>
>>
> Kind regards,
>> Caspar
> Smit
>>
>> --
>> To
> unsubscribe from this list:
> send the line "unsubscribe
> linux-ide" in
>> the body
> of a message to
> majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>> More majordomo
> info at
> http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Random shutdown of disks using sata_mv
@ 2009-12-03 11:27 Caspar Smit
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Caspar Smit @ 2009-12-03 11:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-ide@vger.kernel.org
> the following lines from the kern.log:
> Nov 24 23:03:23
supernas02 kernel: [131523.808631] ata19.00: exception
> Emask
0x0
SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x6 frozen
> Nov 24 23:03:23
supernas02
kernel: [131523.808690] ata19.00: cmd
>
b0/da:00:00:4f:c2/00:00:00:00:00/00 tag 0
> Nov 24 23:03:23
supernas02 kernel: [131523.808691] res
>
40/00:01:01:4f:c2/00:00:00:00:00/00 Emask 0x4 (timeout)
> Nov
24
23:03:23 supernas02 kernel: [131523.808770] ata19.00: status: {
>
DRDY }
> Nov 24 23:03:23 supernas02 kernel:
[131523.808801] ata19:
hard resetting
> link
> Nov 24
23:03:28 supernas02 kernel:
[131529.324010] ata19: link is slow
> to respond, please be
patient (ready=0)
> Nov 24
23:03:33 supernas02 kernel:
[131533.860010] ata19: SRST failed
> (errno=-16)
> Nov 24
23:03:33 supernas02 kernel:
[131533.860038] ata19: hard resetting
> link
> Nov 24
23:03:38 supernas02 kernel: [131539.376009]
ata19: link is slow
> to respond, please be patient (ready=0)
> Nov 24 23:03:43
supernas02 kernel: [131543.912006] ata19: SRST
failed
>
(errno=-16)
> Nov 24 23:03:43 supernas02 kernel:
[131543.912033] ata19: hard resetting
> link
> Nov 24
23:03:48 supernas02 kernel: [131549.428010] ata19: link is slow
>
to respond, please be patient (ready=0)
> Nov 24
23:04:18
supernas02 kernel: [131578.940012] ata19: SRST failed
>
(errno=-16)
> Nov 24 23:04:18 supernas02 kernel:
[131578.940048]
ata19: limiting
> SATA link speed to 1.5
Gbps
> Nov 24
23:04:18 supernas02 kernel: [131578.940077]
ata19: hard resetting
> link
> Nov 24 23:04:23 supernas02
kernel: [131583.952009]
ata19: SRST failed
> (errno=-16)
> Nov 24 23:04:23
supernas02 kernel: [131583.958191] ata19:
reset
> failed, giving
up
> Nov 24 23:04:23
supernas02 kernel: [131583.958218] ata19.00:
disabled
> Nov
24 23:04:23 supernas02 kernel: [131583.958253]
ata19: EH complete
>
> means that a timeout error
occurred, the after
then, the disk didn't
> respond.
> is
it the same
disks that fails all the time?
As the subject says:
it is
random, so not everytime the same disk. This makes it extra hard to
troubleshoot.
Kind regards,
Caspar
>
> saeed
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:40 PM,
Caspar
Smit <c.smit@truebit.nl> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Simon,
>>
>> We are not
experiencing
that "FAILED TO
>> IDENTIFY"
error.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Caspar
>>
>>
>>> We are investigating a similar
type of
problem seen on several
>> of
>> our
>>> systems.
>>> Seemingly at random (though
some
>> systems
>> seem more susceptible than
>>> others) we see the ata
>> link reset and
>> subsequently there is a FAILED TO
>>> IDENTIFY
>> error logged.
>> smartctl is unable to get
information from the
>>> drive and a power
>>
cycle of the drive is required to bring it
>>
back on line.
>>>
>>> I would be interested to
know if the
>> ata level errors are similar
>> to
those
>>> we are seeing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> -----Original
Message-----
>>>
>>
From:
>>
linux-ide-owner@vger.kernel.org
>>>
>>
[mailto:linux-ide-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Caspar Smit
>>> Sent: 01 December 2009 12:16
>>> To:
>> linux-ide@vger.kernel.org
>>> Subject: Random
shutdown of disks
>> using sata_mv
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>
>>> I'm having a problem
where
in random one of my disks shuts
>>> down and is
disconnected
from the linux kernel. In other words I
>>
have to
>>> reboot the system or physically unplug/replug
the
>> disk
>> to get it to work
>>>
again.
>>>
>>> I will
>> provide
my
>> configuration:
>>>
>>>
SuperMicro
>>>
>> SC-216 chassis
>>
(24 bay 2,5" disks)
>>> 24x Seagate
>>
ST9500420AS 500Gb
>>>
>> 7200 RPM Hard Drives
>>> 3x
>> SuperMicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 (SATA
>> Controller
>>> using the sata_mv
>>
kernel driver)
>>>
>>>
>> I use
Debian Lenny 5.0
and
>>> kernel:
>>
linux-image-2.6.30-bpo.2-amd64
>>>
>>
(2.6.30-8~bpo50+1) from the
>>> backports repository.
>>>
>>> The symptom is that
>> after
a
while of
>>> operation a
>> disk is shut
down and
kicked out of
>> a RAID set. It doesn't
>>>
>> matter if there is load or not on the
>> system.
>>>
>>>
>> The
logging
>>> says:
>>>
>>> sd
11:0:0:0:
[sdk]
>> Unhandled error code
>>>
sd 11:0:0:0:
>>> Result:
>>
hostbyte=DID_BAD_TARGET
driverbyte=DRIVER_OK
>>> sd
>> 11:0:0:0:
>>> end_request: I/O error, dev sdk,
sector 0
>>>
>>
>>> In this case
sdk,
>>> but it happens to all
>> disks.
>>> Then the disk is not readable by the
>>>
system
>> anymore.
>>>
>>> When
I
check the disk for errors
>>>
>>
(badblocks/smart) in another system it doesn't give any
>>
errors.
>>>
>> I
>>> only have
this
with 2,5"
>> systems.
>>>
>>>
Is
>> this a sata_mv
>>>
problem? A
>>
disk problem? or anything else?
>>> I can provide more info
if
>>>
needed.
>>>
>>>
>> Kind regards,
>>> Caspar
>> Smit
>>>
>>> --
>>> To
>>
unsubscribe from
this list:
>> send the line
"unsubscribe
>> linux-ide" in
>>> the
body
>> of a message to
>>
majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>>> More majordomo
>>
info at
>>
http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe
from this
list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in
>> the
body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>> More
majordomo info at
 http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>>
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Random shutdown of disks using sata_mv
2009-12-01 14:29 ` Simon Jackson
@ 2009-12-15 5:38 ` Tejun Heo
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Tejun Heo @ 2009-12-15 5:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Simon Jackson; +Cc: Caspar Smit, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org
On 12/01/2009 11:29 PM, Simon Jackson wrote:
> We are investigating a similar type of problem seen on several of
> our systems. Seemingly at random (though some systems seem more
> susceptible than others) we see the ata link reset and subsequently
> there is a FAILED TO IDENTIFY error logged. smartctl is unable to
> get information from the drive and a power cycle of the drive is
> required to bring it back on line.
>
> I would be interested to know if the ata level errors are similar to
> those we are seeing.
Posting kernel messages would be helpful. Just in case, there was a
similar report where the new devicekit based smart polling caused HSM
violation errors and device shutdown on certain SSDs with flaky
firmwares.
Thanks.
--
tejun
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-12-15 5:36 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-12-01 12:15 Random shutdown of disks using sata_mv Caspar Smit
2009-12-01 14:29 ` Simon Jackson
2009-12-15 5:38 ` Tejun Heo
2009-12-01 15:45 ` saeed bishara
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2009-12-02 10:40 Caspar Smit
2009-12-02 15:54 ` saeed bishara
2009-12-03 11:27 Caspar Smit
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).