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Wed, 12 Nov 2025 17:14:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4671d267-d823-4bf7-af30-b587e67dec49@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2025 02:14:05 +0100 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-input@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v8 00/10] HID: asus: Fix ASUS ROG Laptop's Keyboard backlight handling To: Antheas Kapenekakis Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Ilpo_J=C3=A4rvinen?= , platform-driver-x86@vger.kernel.org, linux-input@vger.kernel.org, LKML , Jiri Kosina , Benjamin Tissoires , Corentin Chary , "Luke D . Jones" , Hans de Goede References: <20251101104712.8011-1-lkml@antheas.dev> <27a74ecc-bff7-f3ae-b23e-a8362ac3a6b3@linux.intel.com> <74f91d3c-6494-4754-a10f-4d8c1d45f7ff@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-US, it-IT, en-US-large From: Denis Benato In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 11/12/25 23:08, Antheas Kapenekakis wrote: > On Wed, 12 Nov 2025 at 20:51, Denis Benato wrote: >> >> On 11/12/25 14:41, Antheas Kapenekakis wrote: >>> On Wed, 12 Nov 2025 at 14:22, Ilpo Järvinen >>> wrote: >>>> On Wed, 12 Nov 2025, Antheas Kapenekakis wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sat, 1 Nov 2025 at 11:47, Antheas Kapenekakis wrote: >>>>>> This is a two part series which does the following: >>>>>> - Clean-up init sequence >>>>>> - Unify backlight handling to happen under asus-wmi so that all Aura >>>>>> devices have synced brightness controls and the backlight button works >>>>>> properly when it is on a USB laptop keyboard instead of one w/ WMI. >>>>>> >>>>>> For more context, see cover letter of V1. Since V5, I removed some patches >>>>>> to make this easier to merge. >>>>> Small bump for this. >>>> I looked at v8 earlier but then got an impression some of Denis' comments >>>> against v7 were not taken into account in v8, which implies there will be >>>> delay until I've time to delve into the details (I need to understand >>>> things pretty deeply in such a case, which does take lots of time). >>>> >>>> Alternatively, if Denis says v8 is acceptable, then I don't need to spend >>>> so much time on it, but somehow I've a feeling he isn't happy with v8 >>>> but just hasn't voiced it again... >>>> >>>> Please do realize that ignoring reviewer feedback without a very very good >>>> reason always risks adding delay or friction into getting things >>>> upstreamed. Especially, when the review comes from a person who has been >>>> around for me to learn to trust their reviews or from a maintainer of the >>>> code in question. >>> Sure, sorry if it came out this way. Dennis had two comments on the V7 >>> version of the series. >>> >>> The first one was that asusctl has a hang bug, which he hasn't had >>> time to look into yet. This should have been fixed by dropping the >>> HID_QUIRK_INPUT_PER_APP. I retested the series and that QUIRK was a >>> bit of a NOOP that does not need to be added in the future. >> So it is supposed to not regress it now, correct? >>> The second is he is concerned with dropping the 0x5d/0x5e inits. Luke >>> said (back in March) that it is fine to drop 0x5e because it is only >>> used for ANIME displays. However, for 0x5d, it is hard to verify some >>> of the older laptops because they have only been tested with 0x5d and >>> we do not have the hardware in question to test. >>> >>> For this series, I re-added "initialize LED endpoint early for old >>> NKEY keyboards" that re-adds 0x5d for the keyboards that cannot be >>> tested again so this comment should be resolved too. With that in >>> mind, we do end up with an additional quirk/command that may be >>> unneeded and will remain there forever, but since it was a point of >>> contention, it is not worth arguing over. >>> >>> So both comments should be resolved >> The driver should also not late-initialize anything. >> >> Windows doesn't do it and the official asus application >> can freely send LEDs changing commands to either WMI or USB >> so I don't see any reason to do things differently [than windows] >> and not prepare every USB endpoint to receive commands, >> this has not been addressed unless I confused v7 and v8? > Yes, it's been added on v8. 0x5d is init for the laptops it is > problematic for. Not because it does not work, but because it has not > been verified to work for those laptops. I am not sure I am reading this right: are you telling me that on recent models the windows driver doesn't issue 0x5d? >>> @Denis: can give an ack if this is the case? >>> >>> As for Derek's comment, he has a PR for his project where he removes >>> the name match for Ally devices with ample time for it to be merged >>> until kernel 6.19 is released. In addition, that specific software for >>> full functionality relies on OOT drivers on the distros it ships with, >>> so it is minimally affected in either case. >> The part we are talking about depends on this driver (hid-asus) >> and there are people on asus-linux community using inputplumber >> for non-ally devices (the OOT driver is only for ally devices) >> therefore it is very important to us (and various other distributions) >> not to break that software in any way. > This driver is only used for Ally devices. If you mean that people > remap their keyboards using inputplumber I guess they could but I have > not seen it. I meant people remap keyboards using IP. I am sure there were (and very probably still are) people doing that. >> Weighting pros and cons of changing the name I am not sure >> changing name brings any benefit? Or am I missing something here? >> It's simply used by userspace so the hardware should be loading >> regardless of the name... > Users see the name of their devices in their settings menu. They > should be accurate. Also, the early entry needs to be added anyway to > prevent kicking devices. If it's just aesthetics I don't see much reasons in changing the name. "the early entry needs to be added anyway ...." has no meaning to me, please rephrase. Sorry. >> Along with IP and your tool and asusctl there is also openrgb, >> and a newborn application for asus devices (I don't have contacts >> with that dev nor I remember the name of the tool) >> and I am not even that sure these are all asus-related >> applications. > My tool never checked for names, it briefly did for around a month > after its creation for some devices until capability matches. Around > 6.1 and 6.7 the kernel changed the names of most USB devices and that > caused issues. It currently only uses name matches for VID/PID 0/0 > devices created by the kernel. Specifically, WMI and AT Keyboards. I > am not sure there is a workaround for those. Asusctl also does not use > names either. But IP does, so I would like to hear confirmation from at least Derek before the merge that there won't be future issues. Interpret what I say here as a broad topic, not just name/PER_APP flag: avoid changing data flow on older models... >> Excercise EXTRA care touching this area as these are enough changes >> to make it difficult to understand what exactly is the problem if >> someone shows up with LEDs malfunctioning, laptop not entering sleep >> anymore or something else entirely. Plus over time >> ASUS has used various workarounds for windows problems >> and I am not eager to find out what those are since there is only >> a realistic way it's going to happen.... > These changes are not doing something extraordinary. It's just a minor cleanup. > >>> Moreover, that specific commit is needed for Xbox Ally devices anyway, >>> as the kernel kicks one of the RGB endpoints because it does not >>> register an input device (the check skipped by early return) so >>> userspace becomes unable to control RGB on a stock kernel >>> (hidraw/hiddev nodes are gone). For more context here, this specific >>> endpoint implements the RGB Lamparray protocol for Windows dynamic >>> lighting, and I think in an attempt to make it work properly in >>> Windows, Asus made it so Windows has to first disable dynamic lighting >>> for armoury crate RGB commands to work (the 0x5a ones over the 0xff31 >>> hid page). >> Yes once ASUS introduces something new it sticks with that for >> future models so it's expected more and more laptops will have >> the same problem: I am not questioning if these patches are needed >> as they very clearly are; I am questioning if everything that these >> patches are doing are worth doing and aren't breaking/regressing >> either tools or the flow of actions between the EC and these USB devices. > Well, this series is needed to account for that. Sending the disable > command is out of scope for now though. Here I apologize for confusion: my comments were mostly about older models: I absolutely don't want to break those, but if you find a way to distinguish them from newer models that would give you more freedom with those. No disable commands unless we find hard evidence those are strictly needed. > Antheas > >>> Hopefully this clears things up >>> >>> Antheas >>> >>>>> Unrelated but I was b4ing this series on Ubuntu 24 and got BADSIG: >>>>> DKIM/antheas.dev. Is there a reference for fixing this on my host? >>>>> Perhaps it would help with spam >>>> I see BADSIG very often these days from b4 (thanks to gmail expiring >>>> things after 7 days or so, I recall hearing somewhere), I just ignore them >>>> entirely. >>>> >>>> AFAIK, that has never caused any delay to any patch in pdx86 domain so if >>>> that is what you thought is happening here, it's not the case. >>>> If your patch does appear in the pdx86 patchwork, there's even less reason >>>> to worry as I mostly pick patches to process using patchwork's list. >>> Turns out I had to update my DNS records. It should be good now. >>> >>>> -- >>>> i. >> snipp >>>>>> 2.51.2 >>>>>> >>>>>>