From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (lamorak.hansenpartnership.com [198.37.111.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5046522D4D6; Fri, 21 Mar 2025 16:55:27 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.37.111.173 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1742576130; cv=none; b=fRkOH9l4toSjz3mNpWKlykn+cdd3HXb0t6M47khBM1cLmYNyN4yD3W10HDNA/Ylb3AeWLt7Xy/3JpjiHEYMyUo5tW61IZeOmR1b4OZGDePI5CcmbS2+mvLlWDo0AHNAfWU8tDZa3yVG7+3op+Ed71JRoh4Y+YD/HakHOeSvtI4s= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1742576130; c=relaxed/simple; bh=g9sntvkhHQdJUyCswax3s30ntFQksL6fqHkKNgIEOaU=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=IO55UGPr937k98E+NGlQj1Yb8GOpR3gc3y2WK7ooyG4jjQ7zyMxzctecm0jMmOXhHEDQ4nHyR7C/ykMQAmwUSXFqpWsa86SA+/SrreTFTH/EqiODquKYSBRDm+PKX1rCAbmBIZcuw2FptJJ6EmYWDF1xilzgaXsI1xJpWZphTw8= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=HansenPartnership.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=HansenPartnership.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b=L6ha1pKG; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.37.111.173 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=HansenPartnership.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=HansenPartnership.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b="L6ha1pKG" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hansenpartnership.com; s=20151216; t=1742576126; bh=g9sntvkhHQdJUyCswax3s30ntFQksL6fqHkKNgIEOaU=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=L6ha1pKGDlifeB5SUV0WiERK2KKdeOPsBqIR1q8qP2S5pHuFD5AhIbZy35QCzQNhu 5vgHAMAYcYJlPyV0LIdW0CjKFSsU1DbsE2XhUgY7g0WxvwoyJRWr8L3dU/kgijrbBq 1577gRRh6gzyRNnPTyCibr9hQbk+UEpbjafjNHX4= Received: from lingrow.int.hansenpartnership.com (unknown [IPv6:2601:5c4:4302:c21::a774]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DEAC1C0343; Fri, 21 Mar 2025 12:55:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3e400185af56a899a9d93e792ea314292fb2adb9.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 00/13] Clavis LSM From: James Bottomley To: Eric Snowberg Cc: Paul Moore , Mimi Zohar , David Howells , Jarkko Sakkinen , "open list:SECURITY SUBSYSTEM" , David Woodhouse , "herbert@gondor.apana.org.au" , "davem@davemloft.net" , Ard Biesheuvel , James Morris , "Serge E. Hallyn" , Roberto Sassu , Dmitry Kasatkin , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Micka=EBl_Sala=FCn?= , "casey@schaufler-ca.com" , Stefan Berger , "ebiggers@kernel.org" , Randy Dunlap , open list , "keyrings@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-efi@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org" Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 12:55:25 -0400 In-Reply-To: <172F304A-B719-4FBB-8FF5-23B6961A2DCE@oracle.com> References: <20241017155516.2582369-1-eric.snowberg@oracle.com> <72F52F71-C7F3-402D-8441-3D636A093FE8@oracle.com> <506e8e58e5236a4525b18d84bafa9aae80b24452.camel@linux.ibm.com> <73B78CE7-1BB8-4065-9EBA-FB69E327725E@oracle.com> <1A222B45-FCC4-4BBD-8E17-D92697FE467D@oracle.com> <1956e7f9d60.28a7.85c95baa4474aabc7814e68940a78392@paul-moore.com> <95e7a43a2dd675615a146c56a10abf6921f955f9.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <172F304A-B719-4FBB-8FF5-23B6961A2DCE@oracle.com> Autocrypt: addr=James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; 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8mT2Eh9SkH+YVOmaKsajgZgrBxA7fWmGoxXswEVxJIFj3vW7yNc0C5HaUdYa5iGOMs4kg2ht4s7yy7NRQuh7BifWjo6BQ6k4S1H+6axZucxhSV1L6zN9d+lr3Xo/vy1unzA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.50.3 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 On Fri, 2025-03-21 at 16:40 +0000, Eric Snowberg wrote: > > On Mar 20, 2025, at 4:40=E2=80=AFPM, James Bottomley > > wrote: > >=20 > > On Thu, 2025-03-20 at 16:24 +0000, Eric Snowberg wrote: > > > Having lockdown enforcement has always been=20 > > > a requirement to get a shim signed by Microsoft. > >=20 > > This is factually incorrect.=C2=A0 Microsoft transferred shim signing t= o > > an independent process run by a group of open source maintainers a > > while ago: >=20 > Yes, the shim-review process is understood.=C2=A0 I'm not sure how my > sentence is factually incorrect though. You said people "get shim signed by Microsoft". They don't, they get it signed by the key held by the shim-review maintainers. > Unless you are saying Microsoft no longer maintains the private > key. Well technically the private key is owned by UEFI (and referred to as the UEFI CA) but there are multiple HSM based copies floating around under the control of various operating system groups. The Windows OS group holds one and the shim-review group holds another ... there are probably other copies I don't know about, though. The point about this is that UEFI co-ordinates various discussions between the private key holders about how to preserve security in the UEFI boot environment (mostly at the UEFI Security Sub Team level) it's no longer something Microsoft uniquely decides. > =C2=A0 Hopefully that is not the case, since the public key ships on jus= t > about every single PC built. I don't understand why Microsoft no-longer owning the private key is a problem? Only the public key ships on PCs and that hasn't changed (at least not yet, it might have to for NIST requirements since RSA2048 is being deprecated). Regards, James