From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (lamorak.hansenpartnership.com [198.37.111.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37AE135898; Mon, 15 Dec 2025 20:01:54 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.37.111.173 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1765828917; cv=none; b=tZaRYhMA8Ae93riPcuq8b9Wz/XM5RtYmkzj81ej2Sqkl8BIlLNriY+P0IrC1V0K7KCnUMMvWCzM58iT/VsFV+j6qC8qYAZHGdjOZ4Q7PMsrBV2zOnyaCUUUdAmC3simIsTD5odu/GcGAQ7RfuIIezk8hr9N6tQlPl77YnveiBQ4= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1765828917; c=relaxed/simple; bh=kB6IYGuxn258H2zwSqfjpEGXeX1xRQ4UNWFQjdY0qjw=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=gLYgq60ocxNZihDAhfaVVpZRdW/M7awzqM7Br3cmTuALOFJzz5E/czVWZITY5c6ufqsi4VPVhCpBgbYr0J8saODYv3CyovyYuoGh97WYYbLEASZM1gJjnA13jjmoJLLz7GzgUCIW9GYv6U9ewlMWO6ek4aqR2vRREi0SHGPv70Q= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=HansenPartnership.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=HansenPartnership.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b=m4Ts7CWV; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.37.111.173 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=HansenPartnership.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=HansenPartnership.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b="m4Ts7CWV" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hansenpartnership.com; s=20151216; t=1765828913; bh=kB6IYGuxn258H2zwSqfjpEGXeX1xRQ4UNWFQjdY0qjw=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=m4Ts7CWVVbokTfzpFR7reSsCjw1yz/Tw63ISghO2f30gHSvgAD/H9cg4YT1eQUV+N vcnV3xSGei6lPaAJy5g0CfwoGicWbb1MsHlrrnnU6m0pMDLZ2z4N53g0ZKlHHPspuH v5oSBEDJFiNW91keqVxA7GkJqr8yHDv1ICQNxxmQ= Received: from [192.168.58.209] (unknown [46.140.184.114]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 663611C02EE; Mon, 15 Dec 2025 15:01:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5446f517848338b4ccac8d7bbedf4cc1ed315cb4.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH] KEYS: trusted: Use get_random-fallback for TPM From: James Bottomley To: Jarkko Sakkinen Cc: linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, David Howells , Paul Moore , James Morris , "Serge E. Hallyn" , Mimi Zohar , "open list:KEYS/KEYRINGS" , "open list:SECURITY SUBSYSTEM" , open list Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2025 21:01:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: <20251214213236.339586-1-jarkko@kernel.org> <64e3e4e0a92848fd3b02a213c754f096d2026463.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <60cf8bd2afbad5e930119d73ccf069e95ee4fd9d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Autocrypt: addr=James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; 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 8mT2Eh9SkH+YVOmaKsajgZgrBxA7fWmGoxXswEVxJIFj3vW7yNc0C5HaUdYa5iGOMs4kg2ht4s7yy7NRQuh7BifWjo6BQ6k4S1H+6axZucxhSV1L6zN9d+lr3Xo/vy1unzA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.50.3 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 On Mon, 2025-12-15 at 21:43 +0200, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote: [...] > I think there is misunderstanding with FIPS. >=20 > Having FIPS certificated RNG in TPM matters but it only matters only > in the sense that callers can be FIPS certified as they use that RNG > as a source. >=20 > Using FIPS certified RNG does not magically make callers be FIPS=20 > ceritified actors. The data is contaminated in that sense at the > point when kernel acquires it. I think FIPS certification is a red herring. The point being made in the original thread is about RNG quality. The argument essentially being that the quality of the TPM RNG is known at all points in time but the quality of the kernel RNG (particularly at start of day when the entropy pool is new) is less certain. Regards, James