From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail.marcansoft.com (marcansoft.com [212.63.210.85]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E89031D618A for ; Fri, 7 Feb 2025 09:41:55 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=212.63.210.85 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1738921318; cv=none; b=OCeen6XAOidc4u8yzbu79s4ZSmkcJMoZv5oRriZxAy5YbyRUkCWbCMJOPZoudkmFDFFRflnf4/qebD6pKZpvD8e9Ldp3LsLhxeSsDoNB3ZkMaOOJ7uaK6rFJ4Lft3qdN4iJdKV1f4HaPpPSUi/lpm+4SDryM6keNhNROHmIgiyw= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1738921318; c=relaxed/simple; bh=hhnpORnNFDm++vxXeAvT3ViAqcibr/gkMJz681ofVAg=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:References:From:Cc: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=oX55c278I112osxHXidmKs3bvn/xjp/tgwAoIjfxFaqXc8kzua2GDcWQeo+CfG6ayoCBxiPmJTXeB2sRvumuRF2wmWJ50rTq2wZ9miF4Gm26IUZEYuuGXDawEKupxd5YzRAETxms/AV0vxPo8+LFpOljzR2RRGbMCKK2w543ih0= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=marcan.st; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=marcan.st; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=marcan.st header.i=@marcan.st header.b=f7x/497T; arc=none smtp.client-ip=212.63.210.85 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=marcan.st Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=marcan.st Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=marcan.st header.i=@marcan.st header.b="f7x/497T" Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: marcan@marcan.st) by mail.marcansoft.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E3B5D4267F; Fri, 7 Feb 2025 09:41:44 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=marcan.st; s=default; t=1738921307; bh=hhnpORnNFDm++vxXeAvT3ViAqcibr/gkMJz681ofVAg=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:Cc:In-Reply-To; b=f7x/497TTlA4J5xS7wcETrqljbIFDYnQPGz7GoXWbwqFSu9urdwpcvIrY+8o3XZcA TKfS1WhrKKEMfg1qLi3a6lO9cyEqRo+9achweDSe5w5Lo6bHCDeENj9825sXBESxxf cx15qwbuKNy0PvNPfAG1rI92kJuBoJDVgF5d1UdN673RwcUGRoVVuaoT7NJCdHJriX OjpETvSeS3LFTVSf9I1qM88ISy3JcYeJlpIpJ6KgGLOUB56St6xHaPWJ7uBhIV95Bd DdlNwPA58ACr4ylOhUfT4gaVFSUa3okurftv8s9W5VRoein3+Bg15fTiL2XpjL2s8/ 4idRRZn6TKG8Q== Message-ID: <4c143b85-063a-4413-a6ca-e9d80e26da96@marcan.st> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2025 18:41:43 +0900 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: iommu@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: On community influencing (was Re: [PATCH v8 2/2] rust: add dma coherent allocator abstraction.) To: Simona Vetter References: <20250128092334.GA28548@lst.de> <293df3d54bad446e8fd527f204c6dc301354e340.camel@mailbox.org> <20250130154646.GA2298732@nvidia.com> <2025013030-gummy-cosmic-7927@gregkh> <20250130172437.GN5556@nvidia.com> <2025013148-reversal-pessimism-1515@gregkh> <20250131135421.GO5556@nvidia.com> <2b9b75d1-eb8e-494a-b05f-59f75c92e6ae@marcan.st> From: Hector Martin Content-Language: en-US Cc: Jason Gunthorpe , Greg KH , Linus Torvalds , phasta@kernel.org, Christoph Hellwig , Danilo Krummrich , Miguel Ojeda , Abdiel Janulgue , daniel.almeida@collabora.com, aliceryhl@google.com, robin.murphy@arm.com, rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, Miguel Ojeda , Alex Gaynor , Boqun Feng , Gary Guo , =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn_Roy_Baron?= , Benno Lossin , Andreas Hindborg , Trevor Gross , Valentin Obst , open list , Marek Szyprowski , airlied@redhat.com, "open list:DMA MAPPING HELPERS" , DRI Development In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2025/02/06 3:52, Simona Vetter wrote: > On Tue, Feb 04, 2025 at 03:46:14AM +0900, Hector Martin wrote: >> Adding Linus >> >> My 2c: If Linus doesn't pipe up with an authoritative answer to this >> thread, Miguel and the other Rust folks should just merge this series >> once it is reviewed and ready, ignoring Christoph's overt attempt at >> sabotaging the project. If Linus pulls it, what Christoph says doesn't >> matter. If Linus doesn't pull it, the R4L project is essentially dead >> until either Linus or Christoph make a move. Everything else is beating >> around the bush. >> >> Rust folks: Please don't waste your time and mental cycles on drama like >> this. It's not worth your time. Either Linus likes it, or he doesn't. >> Everything else is distractions orchestrated by a subset of saboteur >> maintainers who are trying to demoralize you until you give up, because >> they know they're going to be on the losing side of history sooner or >> later. No amount of sabotage from old entrenched maintainers is going to >> stop the world from moving forward towards memory-safe languages. >> >> FWIW, in my opinion, the "cancer" comment from Christoph would be enough >> to qualify for Code-of-Conduct action, but I doubt anything of the sort >> will happen. > > Yeah no. > > https://chaos.social/@sima/113942119012147959 > > This was about you, because typing a proper answer takes a bit longer. It > was also about your toots on fedi, like this: > > https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/113941468353031993 > > And "haha it's only a joke" does not work with your public profile and following. > > I do understand the frustration and temptation to just burn it all to the > ground, head the call of the sirens, or maybe for me more pick up goat > farming in the Swiss Alps. But you can't have it both and expect to also > be part of and contribute to the same community. And personally I don't > appreciate getting drenched in gasoline while I'm trying to quench flames > on the ground. > > And this isn't the first time or the second, by now it's a pretty clear > pattern over some years. And with the first I could explain why you react > like that and you had my full understanding, but eventually that runs a > bit thin as an excuse. Now I'm left with the unlikely explanation that > you just like thundering in as the cavalry, fashionably late, maximally > destructive, because it entertains the masses on fedi or reddit or > wherever. I have no idea what you're trying to achieve here, I really > don't get it, but I am for sure fed up dealing with the fallout. > > Cheers, Sima Since we're into complaining about social media posts on the list now, I'm going to link one of yours: https://chaos.social/@sima/113961496955043901 An R4L maintainer quit after multiple rounds of hostility, including some completely unacceptable public comments bordering on downright harassment from tytso, a situation which was widely publicized. If, according to you, that's "shockingly smooth" with "no outsized drama" other than "what I stirred up" (I guess you also missed the whole LWN post about this thread before I posted anything on Fedi? That's how I even found out about this), then I'm glad I'm disengaging with this community. The Stockholm syndrome and utter denial is palpable. I thought I could work with you on these issues; I don't know what happened over the past year since we last had a private conversation about this, but clearly you've changed your mind. Thus, as you kindly requested of me in social media, https://chaos.social/@sima/113961283260455876 I will now proceed to fuck off. Good luck. - Hector