[linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[michael]

I'm looking for a solution for (re-)installing WinXP on my slave disk
when I have Fedora and LVM on the master disk. In the past I've opened
up the box and unplugged the Fedora/LVM disk in order for WinXP to
install okay. But this seems much too drastic. Even swapping disk order
(in BIOS) doesn't help - WinXP installation sits there "forever" when
checking current config.

Whilst I cannot find any definite reference stating "MS WinXP cannot
handle LVM" it does seem to be the culprit. 

Anybody got any such definitive references or other help?

Thanks, Michael

Re: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[michael]

On Wed, 2007-12-19 at 00:44 +1000, Michael D. Setzer II wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Not sure what problem you are running into. 
{}

Sorry if my original post wasn't precise. One example is that WinXP
hangs during installation.

RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[Joseph L. Casale]

>Whilst I cannot find any definite reference stating "MS WinXP cannot
>handle LVM" it does seem to be the culprit.
>
>Anybody got any such definitive references or other help?
>
>Thanks, Michael

If you do this, you will destroy the mbr on the first disc making Fedora unbootable. You will then have to re-install grub and make sure your menu has an entry for winxp. As far as winxp hanging on install, I am not surprised as it doesn't understand/know of lvm or Linux at all. It's likely trying to analyze the disc and gets stuck. You may have less work in the long run if you do unplug it!
jlc

Re: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[michael]

On 18 Dec 2007, at 18:19, Joseph L. Casale wrote:

>> Whilst I cannot find any definite reference stating "MS WinXP cannot
>> handle LVM" it does seem to be the culprit.
>>
>> Anybody got any such definitive references or other help?
>>
>> Thanks, Michael
>
> If you do this, you will destroy the mbr on the first disc making  
> Fedora unbootable. You will then have to re-install grub and make  
> sure your menu has an entry for winxp. As far as winxp hanging on  
> install, I am not surprised as it doesn't understand/know of lvm or  
> Linux at all. It's likely trying to analyze the disc and gets  
> stuck. You may have less work in the long run if you do unplug it!
> jlc

i've not had problems with Linux dual booting it's the LVM itself  
that seems a problem for WinXP installation.
I'm really hoping it is possible to dual boot Linux/LVM and WinXP!!!

RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[Joseph L. Casale]

>i've not had problems with Linux dual booting it's the LVM itself
>that seems a problem for WinXP installation.
>I'm really hoping it is possible to dual boot Linux/LVM and WinXP!!!

I am triple booting winxp, vista and Fedora Core 8, it works just fine. LVM doesn't have anything to do with it (Even though I am also using LVM). It is more likely there is some specific hiccup with your computer that WinXP setup gets tangled up on (I have encountered enough of my own...).

Regardless, IMHO it's easier to take out your Linux HD and make the WinXP HD the only one in your system then install winxp, that's less work afaik.

Ymmv,
jlc

RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[pham_cuong]

 Michael,

No. There are several issues here, and the discussion in this email
chain mixes thing up.

This has nothing to do with WinXP vs LVM.

It has to do with the way WinXP want to install vs. the way you want to
install.  In all case, you will lose to XP.  More specifcally, it has to
do with the way Windows XP works with primary and secondary disks, and
with the way XP works with partitions in each disk.

What you want to do is wrong for your intended purpose.  You can not
install XP onto a slave disk in a multidisk host SUSEQUENT TO installing
other Oses on the primary disk, without data loss, since XP would want
to write data to a useable partition of the primary disk (after it
formats the [first] paritition on the primary disk) regardless of
whether you want to install the rest of the OS onto a partition on the
primary disk or onto a partition of the secondary disk.  This is why you
have to install XP first, so that the boot info is saved.  Once XP is
successfully installed, you then can install other non-Windows Oses
either:

A.  On the same partition of the same disk (some Oses)
B.  On a different partition of the same disk
C.  On a different partition of a different disk.

If you'd done this, then the Primary disk contains 1 or more partitions,
one of which is designated for XP, as recorded in the hidden system file
in the root directory of the primary drive, in the partition you've
designated to XP at the time of installation.  For most people, the
entire primary disk would be used, so the partition would be the first
partition.  This partition would have the size less than or equaled to
the entire raw disk.  Windows would, by default, designate this as "C:"
drive.  The "boot.ini" file would look like this:

[operating system]
Multi(1)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional" /noexecute=Alwaysoff /fastdetect
Multi(1)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2003-X64
Enterprise  Edition" /noexecute=Alwaysoff /fastdetect

Upon a system boot, XP reads this boot.ini and display a menu of boot
options within Windows.

If you want to reinstall XP onto the 2nd/secondary disk, XP still have
to write severla hidden system files onto a [NTFS]-formatted partition
on the primary disk anyway; one of which is the boot.ini file.  If there
is another non-Windows, non-DOS, or previous incompatible Windows OS
exists, XP will format that partition and wipe out the ther OS.  This is
why you always have to install [Windows] XP first before installing
other non-Windows Oses.

You should not care about whether Fedora exists in the primary or
secondary disk.
Instead, you want to install XP on the primary disk first, then install
Fedore or whatever, on the secondary disk.  This is the way XP is
designed to work.  Other Oses just have to to work around XP when it
comes to multiboot.


Good luck.

Confucius.





-----Original Message-----
From: linux-lvm-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:linux-lvm-bounces@redhat.com]
On Behalf Of michael
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:28 AM
To: linux-lvm@redhat.com
Subject: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

I'm looking for a solution for (re-)installing WinXP on my slave disk
when I have Fedora and LVM on the master disk. In the past I've opened
up the box and unplugged the Fedora/LVM disk in order for WinXP to
install okay. But this seems much too drastic. Even swapping disk order
(in BIOS) doesn't help - WinXP installation sits there "forever" when
checking current config.

Whilst I cannot find any definite reference stating "MS WinXP cannot
handle LVM" it does seem to be the culprit. 

Anybody got any such definitive references or other help?

Thanks, Michael

_______________________________________________
linux-lvm mailing list
linux-lvm@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm
read the LVM HOW-TO at http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/

RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[pham_cuong]

FYI:   

I have servers and even laptop configured to multi-boot with RHEL, SuSE
Linux, Vmware Workstation (laptop only), Vmware ESX 3.5,  W2K3EE-X32,
W2K3EE-X64, and XP Pro w/o any problem.  You just have to know the
behavior of each OS you want to install in a multiboot environment.

If you need offline help, write to my email at khongphutu@yahoo.com

Regards.



-----Original Message-----
From: pham, cuong 
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:53 PM
To: 'LVM general discussion and development'
Subject: RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

 Michael,

No. There are several issues here, and the discussion in this email
chain mixes thing up.

This has nothing to do with WinXP vs LVM.

It has to do with the way WinXP want to install vs. the way you want to
install.  In all case, you will lose to XP.  More specifcally, it has to
do with the way Windows XP works with primary and secondary disks, and
with the way XP works with partitions in each disk.

What you want to do is wrong for your intended purpose.  You can not
install XP onto a slave disk in a multidisk host SUSEQUENT TO installing
other Oses on the primary disk, without data loss, since XP would want
to write data to a useable partition of the primary disk (after it
formats the [first] paritition on the primary disk) regardless of
whether you want to install the rest of the OS onto a partition on the
primary disk or onto a partition of the secondary disk.  This is why you
have to install XP first, so that the boot info is saved.  Once XP is
successfully installed, you then can install other non-Windows Oses
either:

A.  On the same partition of the same disk (some Oses)
B.  On a different partition of the same disk
C.  On a different partition of a different disk.

If you'd done this, then the Primary disk contains 1 or more partitions,
one of which is designated for XP, as recorded in the hidden system file
in the root directory of the primary drive, in the partition you've
designated to XP at the time of installation.  For most people, the
entire primary disk would be used, so the partition would be the first
partition.  This partition would have the size less than or equaled to
the entire raw disk.  Windows would, by default, designate this as "C:"
drive.  The "boot.ini" file would look like this:

[operating system]
Multi(1)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional" /noexecute=Alwaysoff /fastdetect
Multi(1)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2003-X64
Enterprise  Edition" /noexecute=Alwaysoff /fastdetect

Upon a system boot, XP reads this boot.ini and display a menu of boot
options within Windows.

If you want to reinstall XP onto the 2nd/secondary disk, XP still have
to write severla hidden system files onto a [NTFS]-formatted partition
on the primary disk anyway; one of which is the boot.ini file.  If there
is another non-Windows, non-DOS, or previous incompatible Windows OS
exists, XP will format that partition and wipe out the ther OS.  This is
why you always have to install [Windows] XP first before installing
other non-Windows Oses.

You should not care about whether Fedora exists in the primary or
secondary disk.
Instead, you want to install XP on the primary disk first, then install
Fedore or whatever, on the secondary disk.  This is the way XP is
designed to work.  Other Oses just have to to work around XP when it
comes to multiboot.


Good luck.

Confucius.





-----Original Message-----
From: linux-lvm-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:linux-lvm-bounces@redhat.com]
On Behalf Of michael
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:28 AM
To: linux-lvm@redhat.com
Subject: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

I'm looking for a solution for (re-)installing WinXP on my slave disk
when I have Fedora and LVM on the master disk. In the past I've opened
up the box and unplugged the Fedora/LVM disk in order for WinXP to
install okay. But this seems much too drastic. Even swapping disk order
(in BIOS) doesn't help - WinXP installation sits there "forever" when
checking current config.

Whilst I cannot find any definite reference stating "MS WinXP cannot
handle LVM" it does seem to be the culprit. 

Anybody got any such definitive references or other help?

Thanks, Michael

_______________________________________________
linux-lvm mailing list
linux-lvm@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm
read the LVM HOW-TO at http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/

RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[cs]

On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 14:52 -0500, pham_cuong@emc.com wrote:
>  Michael,
> 
> No. There are several issues here, and the discussion in this email
> chain mixes thing up.
> 
> This has nothing to do with WinXP vs LVM.
> 
> It has to do with the way WinXP want to install vs. the way you want to
> install.  In all case, you will lose to XP.  More specifcally, it has to
> do with the way Windows XP works with primary and secondary disks, and
> with the way XP works with partitions in each disk.
> 
> What you want to do is wrong for your intended purpose.  You can not
> install XP onto a slave disk in a multidisk host SUSEQUENT TO installing
> other Oses on the primary disk, without data loss, since XP would want
> to write data to a useable partition of the primary disk (after it
> formats the [first] paritition on the primary disk) regardless of
> whether you want to install the rest of the OS onto a partition on the
> primary disk or onto a partition of the secondary disk.  This is why you
> have to install XP first, so that the boot info is saved.  Once XP is
> successfully installed, you then can install other non-Windows Oses
> either:
> 
> A.  On the same partition of the same disk (some Oses)
> B.  On a different partition of the same disk
> C.  On a different partition of a different disk.
> 
> If you'd done this, then the Primary disk contains 1 or more partitions,
> one of which is designated for XP, as recorded in the hidden system file
> in the root directory of the primary drive, in the partition you've
> designated to XP at the time of installation.  For most people, the
> entire primary disk would be used, so the partition would be the first
> partition.  This partition would have the size less than or equaled to
> the entire raw disk.  Windows would, by default, designate this as "C:"
> drive.  The "boot.ini" file would look like this:
> 
> [operating system]
> Multi(1)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows XP
> Professional" /noexecute=Alwaysoff /fastdetect
> Multi(1)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2003-X64
> Enterprise  Edition" /noexecute=Alwaysoff /fastdetect
> 
> Upon a system boot, XP reads this boot.ini and display a menu of boot
> options within Windows.
> 
> If you want to reinstall XP onto the 2nd/secondary disk, XP still have
> to write severla hidden system files onto a [NTFS]-formatted partition
> on the primary disk anyway; one of which is the boot.ini file.  If there
> is another non-Windows, non-DOS, or previous incompatible Windows OS
> exists, XP will format that partition and wipe out the ther OS.  This is
> why you always have to install [Windows] XP first before installing
> other non-Windows Oses.
> 
> You should not care about whether Fedora exists in the primary or
> secondary disk.
> Instead, you want to install XP on the primary disk first, then install
> Fedore or whatever, on the secondary disk.  This is the way XP is
> designed to work.  Other Oses just have to to work around XP when it
> comes to multiboot.
> 
> 
> Good luck.

Yes, I may be confusing myself! I had in the past unhooked my master HD
(with Linux and a "smaller so it only fits on 1 disk" LVM) and then
stuck XP on the other HD. 

Many moons later (ie now) and with both HDs hooked up, I can boot into
XP from the GRUB menu. Then I tried to update the XP installation using
the provided (with mobo) Intel CD (to get networking working and some
other things (can't recall off top of head) during which process it had
to reboot a few times and during one of these it hung "forever".

So I then tried to reinstall XP (still with both HDs hooked up) and it
hangs during the installation (I'd need to do it again to see where, but
it had got past asking what the product key was)

I was accusing LVM since I couldn't recall such probs with non-LVM dual
boot installations but it may be that for them I always had either used
master HD for XP or had unhooked other HDs. I must admit I'm still lost
as to why the XP reinstall hangs - I was presuming it was looking at all
filesystems/partitions and getting stuck

I think people are suggesting that if I unhook the master HD (but why do
i really have to do that rather than swapping, in BIOS, the boot
order???), having ensured I've nothing on slave HD that I want to  keep,
and then sticking XP in one partion, then putting all HDs back in the
machine and setting up the GRUB map/rootnoverify options accordingly?

Thanks, Michael

RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[pham_cuong]

There is a difference between changing the boot order from the BIOS vs.
[physically] removing the master HD.  Here's why:

In the former case, the BIOS boot order is at the lower-level (earlier)
and it will take effect before the boot loader exists in each drive.
Depending on your BIOS, the boot order can be fixed or priority-based
(most BIOSes support priority-based boot path).  Fixed order means that
only the specified boot order is used.  Priority-based boot order means
that the system will attempt the first boot path on the list, if failed,
or timed out, goes to the 2nd boot path.  BIOS boot order only changes
the order of which path to boot from first. It has no control over the
designation of which drive is detected and designated as drive 0 or
drive 1.  Boot.ini has this level of granularity, and more... Down to
the partition level (one below the disk level).

The act of removing the Master HD changes the HD designation at the
hardware level, and this in turn may affect how the system boots (for
non-SCSI only). Specifically, for your case the XP's boot.ini may
designate that XP is to be booted from the first disk (connected to
PR1), first paritition, and you've physically connect this drive as a
secondary/slave (SL) drive so XP will never boot when XP's boot loader
reads the boot.ini.  Upon either moving this drive to the primary (PR1)
connection, or change the boot.ini, the drive order for this drive is
changed from disk1 to disk0, so XP would see this drive and be able to
boot from it.  As you can see, in this case, changing the BIOS boot
order is inconsequential.

Regards,

Confucius

-----Original Message-----
From: linux-lvm-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:linux-lvm-bounces@redhat.com]
On Behalf Of cs
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 3:38 PM
To: LVM general discussion and development
Subject: RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 14:52 -0500, pham_cuong@emc.com wrote:
>  Michael,
> 
> No. There are several issues here, and the discussion in this email
> chain mixes thing up.
> 
> This has nothing to do with WinXP vs LVM.
> 
> It has to do with the way WinXP want to install vs. the way you want
to
> install.  In all case, you will lose to XP.  More specifcally, it has
to
> do with the way Windows XP works with primary and secondary disks, and
> with the way XP works with partitions in each disk.
> 
> What you want to do is wrong for your intended purpose.  You can not
> install XP onto a slave disk in a multidisk host SUSEQUENT TO
installing
> other Oses on the primary disk, without data loss, since XP would want
> to write data to a useable partition of the primary disk (after it
> formats the [first] paritition on the primary disk) regardless of
> whether you want to install the rest of the OS onto a partition on the
> primary disk or onto a partition of the secondary disk.  This is why
you
> have to install XP first, so that the boot info is saved.  Once XP is
> successfully installed, you then can install other non-Windows Oses
> either:
> 
> A.  On the same partition of the same disk (some Oses)
> B.  On a different partition of the same disk
> C.  On a different partition of a different disk.
> 
> If you'd done this, then the Primary disk contains 1 or more
partitions,
> one of which is designated for XP, as recorded in the hidden system
file
> in the root directory of the primary drive, in the partition you've
> designated to XP at the time of installation.  For most people, the
> entire primary disk would be used, so the partition would be the first
> partition.  This partition would have the size less than or equaled to
> the entire raw disk.  Windows would, by default, designate this as
"C:"
> drive.  The "boot.ini" file would look like this:
> 
> [operating system]
> Multi(1)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows XP
> Professional" /noexecute=Alwaysoff /fastdetect
> Multi(1)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2003-X64
> Enterprise  Edition" /noexecute=Alwaysoff /fastdetect
> 
> Upon a system boot, XP reads this boot.ini and display a menu of boot
> options within Windows.
> 
> If you want to reinstall XP onto the 2nd/secondary disk, XP still have
> to write severla hidden system files onto a [NTFS]-formatted partition
> on the primary disk anyway; one of which is the boot.ini file.  If
there
> is another non-Windows, non-DOS, or previous incompatible Windows OS
> exists, XP will format that partition and wipe out the ther OS.  This
is
> why you always have to install [Windows] XP first before installing
> other non-Windows Oses.
> 
> You should not care about whether Fedora exists in the primary or
> secondary disk.
> Instead, you want to install XP on the primary disk first, then
install
> Fedore or whatever, on the secondary disk.  This is the way XP is
> designed to work.  Other Oses just have to to work around XP when it
> comes to multiboot.
> 
> 
> Good luck.

Yes, I may be confusing myself! I had in the past unhooked my master HD
(with Linux and a "smaller so it only fits on 1 disk" LVM) and then
stuck XP on the other HD. 

Many moons later (ie now) and with both HDs hooked up, I can boot into
XP from the GRUB menu. Then I tried to update the XP installation using
the provided (with mobo) Intel CD (to get networking working and some
other things (can't recall off top of head) during which process it had
to reboot a few times and during one of these it hung "forever".

So I then tried to reinstall XP (still with both HDs hooked up) and it
hangs during the installation (I'd need to do it again to see where, but
it had got past asking what the product key was)

I was accusing LVM since I couldn't recall such probs with non-LVM dual
boot installations but it may be that for them I always had either used
master HD for XP or had unhooked other HDs. I must admit I'm still lost
as to why the XP reinstall hangs - I was presuming it was looking at all
filesystems/partitions and getting stuck

I think people are suggesting that if I unhook the master HD (but why do
i really have to do that rather than swapping, in BIOS, the boot
order???), having ensured I've nothing on slave HD that I want to  keep,
and then sticking XP in one partion, then putting all HDs back in the
machine and setting up the GRUB map/rootnoverify options accordingly?

Thanks, Michael

_______________________________________________
linux-lvm mailing list
linux-lvm@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm
read the LVM HOW-TO at http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/

RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[cs]

On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 16:52 -0500, pham_cuong@emc.com wrote:
> There is a difference between changing the boot order from the BIOS vs.
> [physically] removing the master HD.  Here's why:
> 
> In the former case, the BIOS boot order is at the lower-level (earlier)
> and it will take effect before the boot loader exists in each drive.
> Depending on your BIOS, the boot order can be fixed or priority-based
> (most BIOSes support priority-based boot path).  Fixed order means that
> only the specified boot order is used.  Priority-based boot order means
> that the system will attempt the first boot path on the list, if failed,
> or timed out, goes to the 2nd boot path.  BIOS boot order only changes
> the order of which path to boot from first. It has no control over the
> designation of which drive is detected and designated as drive 0 or
> drive 1.  Boot.ini has this level of granularity, and more... Down to
> the partition level (one below the disk level).
> 
> The act of removing the Master HD changes the HD designation at the
> hardware level, and this in turn may affect how the system boots (for
> non-SCSI only). Specifically, for your case the XP's boot.ini may
> designate that XP is to be booted from the first disk (connected to
> PR1), first paritition, and you've physically connect this drive as a
> secondary/slave (SL) drive so XP will never boot when XP's boot loader
> reads the boot.ini.  Upon either moving this drive to the primary (PR1)
> connection, or change the boot.ini, the drive order for this drive is
> changed from disk1 to disk0, so XP would see this drive and be able to
> boot from it.  As you can see, in this case, changing the BIOS boot
> order is inconsequential.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Confucius

useful stuff but I'm still unsure why if I change the order in BIOS then
(when I had it working a bit) it would start the XP boot sequence (and
not the GRUB from master) but then hang indefinitely...

RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[Georges Giralt]

Selon cs <cs@networkingnewsletter.org.uk>:

> On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 16:52 -0500, pham_cuong@emc.com wrote:
> > There is a difference between changing the boot order from the BIOS vs.
> > [physically] removing the master HD.  Here's why:
...............Usefull stuff snipped............
> > Regards,
> >
> > Confucius
>
> useful stuff but I'm still unsure why if I change the order in BIOS then
> (when I had it working a bit) it would start the XP boot sequence (and
> not the GRUB from master) but then hang indefinitely...
Hi !
Let me chime in here as I've faced the same problem you've got.
My PC has a lot of disks, some of them for Fedora/LVM/mirror install, some of
them for Mandriva/Ubuntu install and one with Windows XP.
The problem I encountered came from ...guess what ? Windows XP installation.
Here is a _short_ HowTo.
1) open you PC and let ONLY one disk into it as MASTER (if IDE) and install
Windows/XP.
2) Double check that the Windows/XP boot section specify only this disk.
3) Test that you can boot Windows/XP in this particular configuration.
4) Return PC hardware as it should be.
5) double check that you Linux/LVM config boots fine.
6) modify the Grub.conf file to have Windows/XP believe it is on first disk/only
disk using map() command.
7) double check Windows/XP boots fine.
If you do a Windows/XP install with another configuration than above, you will
have some references to this configuration in the registry/boot config...etc and
won't be able to run  XP�again. Also be sure to wipe clean the Windows/XP disk
before installation, otherwise, you know what....
This is just "been there, done that" .... kind of PITA I had.
And, of course, YMMV.
-- 

RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[cs]

On Wed, 2007-12-19 at 11:20 +0100, Georges Giralt wrote:
> Selon cs <cs@networkingnewsletter.org.uk>:
> 
> > On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 16:52 -0500, pham_cuong@emc.com wrote:
> > > There is a difference between changing the boot order from the BIOS vs.
> > > [physically] removing the master HD.  Here's why:
> ...............Usefull stuff snipped............
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Confucius
> >
> > useful stuff but I'm still unsure why if I change the order in BIOS then
> > (when I had it working a bit) it would start the XP boot sequence (and
> > not the GRUB from master) but then hang indefinitely...
> Hi !
> Let me chime in here as I've faced the same problem you've got.
> My PC has a lot of disks, some of them for Fedora/LVM/mirror install, some of
> them for Mandriva/Ubuntu install and one with Windows XP.
> The problem I encountered came from ...guess what ? Windows XP installation.
> Here is a _short_ HowTo.
> 1) open you PC and let ONLY one disk into it as MASTER (if IDE) and install
> Windows/XP.
> 2) Double check that the Windows/XP boot section specify only this disk.
> 3) Test that you can boot Windows/XP in this particular configuration.
> 4) Return PC hardware as it should be.
> 5) double check that you Linux/LVM config boots fine.
> 6) modify the Grub.conf file to have Windows/XP believe it is on first disk/only
> disk using map() command.
> 7) double check Windows/XP boots fine.
> If you do a Windows/XP install with another configuration than above, you will
> have some references to this configuration in the registry/boot config...etc and
> won't be able to run  XP¨again. Also be sure to wipe clean the Windows/XP disk
> before installation, otherwise, you know what....
> This is just "been there, done that" .... kind of PITA I had.
> And, of course, YMMV.

that does seem the only safe way but I'm still struggling to understand
why!

Thanks, Michael

RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[pham_cuong]

 Instead of discussing back and forth w/o real data to discuss/explore with concrete evidences, could you:

A. Post the content of both the grub.conf and boot.ini files
B. Tell us the physical position of each of the drive, and
C. The current BIOS setting
D. Any observed behavior with the settings stated in A,B, and C.

I presume (please make appropriate correction as needed), based on the email trails, that the "current config that failed" is:

E.  Primary drive contains Fedorea.
F.  Slave drive contains XP.
G.  Upon POST, Fedora boot loader comes up first, if you make the selection to boot to Fedora, then Fedora boot up w/o problem.
H.  However, if you were to make the selection to boot to XP, then XP started, but hung.  If so, let us know what transpired (what the last thing that passed, what the last thing that failed

I.  I need to know whether the failure is caused by the Fedora boot loader or the XP boot loader.  At this time, I can not ascertain which one is the culprit.  If E,F,G,H are correct, then boot.ini along with all the necessary hidden system files must be scrutized to ensure that they exists, that they are good (integrity check), and that the config is set correctly.

Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: linux-lvm-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:linux-lvm-bounces@redhat.com] On Behalf Of cs
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 5:25 AM
To: LVM general discussion and development
Subject: RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

On Wed, 2007-12-19 at 11:20 +0100, Georges Giralt wrote:
> Selon cs <cs@networkingnewsletter.org.uk>:
> 
> > On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 16:52 -0500, pham_cuong@emc.com wrote:
> > > There is a difference between changing the boot order from the BIOS vs.
> > > [physically] removing the master HD.  Here's why:
> ...............Usefull stuff snipped............
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Confucius
> >
> > useful stuff but I'm still unsure why if I change the order in BIOS then
> > (when I had it working a bit) it would start the XP boot sequence (and
> > not the GRUB from master) but then hang indefinitely...
> Hi !
> Let me chime in here as I've faced the same problem you've got.
> My PC has a lot of disks, some of them for Fedora/LVM/mirror install, some of
> them for Mandriva/Ubuntu install and one with Windows XP.
> The problem I encountered came from ...guess what ? Windows XP installation.
> Here is a _short_ HowTo.
> 1) open you PC and let ONLY one disk into it as MASTER (if IDE) and install
> Windows/XP.
> 2) Double check that the Windows/XP boot section specify only this disk.
> 3) Test that you can boot Windows/XP in this particular configuration.
> 4) Return PC hardware as it should be.
> 5) double check that you Linux/LVM config boots fine.
> 6) modify the Grub.conf file to have Windows/XP believe it is on first disk/only
> disk using map() command.
> 7) double check Windows/XP boots fine.
> If you do a Windows/XP install with another configuration than above, you will
> have some references to this configuration in the registry/boot config...etc and
> won't be able to run  XP�again. Also be sure to wipe clean the Windows/XP disk
> before installation, otherwise, you know what....
> This is just "been there, done that" .... kind of PITA I had.
> And, of course, YMMV.

that does seem the only safe way but I'm still struggling to understand
why!

Thanks, Michael




_______________________________________________
linux-lvm mailing list
linux-lvm@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm
read the LVM HOW-TO at http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/

RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[Georges Giralt]

Selon pham_cuong@emc.com:

>  Instead of discussing back and forth w/o real data to discuss/explore with
> concrete evidences, could you:
>
> A. Post the content of both the grub.conf and boot.ini files
...........Heavilly snipped.................
Hi Pham !
I think this is not totally sufficient.
You have to check the BIOS to see how and in what order it sees the disks.
Some Bioses have a strange behavior especially when you have a SCSI card or USB
disks.
On my Mobo, if I plug a Sata drive, the first master IDE came in third position,
right after the sata disk and the SCSI DVDrom which is still lugged on. Do not
ask me why it sees this as a disk (and even if there is nothing into it).
So I admire the Grub people as they've made a terrific job ;-)
-- 

RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[pham_cuong]

I agree in general... But:

1.  In his configuration (in this case), the same hardware are used,
therefore the type of each hardware remains fixed, and since we're
talking about 2 drives connected to the same (I presume) built-in
Channel 1 EIDE Master/Slave, we don't have to deal with the drive
shifting issue and thus the order of appearance between different
hardware interface is irrelevant. 
2.  We're not talking about SCSI here.
3.  Hardware are recognized in particular order, based on whether they
are internal (built-in) or add-on (via buses such as SCSI, PCI, PCI-X,
PCIe, etc.), and whether the built-in feature(s) is enabled or not.
4.  The order of loading by the POST is typically internal first, then
external.  So the order of appearance of drives is dependent on which
driver is loaded first, which is also dependent upon the bus position.
The loading order is dependent upon whether that feature's state
(enabled or disabled). 
5.  Typically if internal IDE/EIDE is enabled, along with SCSI, and
SATA, IDE drive(s) is recognized first, then SCSI, then SATA (BIOS
implementation specific).  When this happens, one must take the
appropriate steps to modify each boot loader, one at a time,
sequentially, to rectify the shifted hardware position.  For this case,
the proper OS installation process is XP first, then Fedora.  Therefore,
the Fedora boot loader is the first one to be loaded, followed by the XP
boot loader. 
6.  Once an OS is loaded, its configuration is already implicitly based
on the order of appearance of the hardware as recognized during the POST
and is effective at time that OS is loaded.  These hardware-specific
info is recorded in the appropriate configuration files for each OS for
that OS' boot loader to use.  Many people do not fully understand this
point and can mess up running system badly by introducing new hardware
that have the potential of changing hardware order for a multi-OS, multi
boot systems.
7.  SCSI and FC are not susceptible to this problem (if handled
correctly).
8.  And yes, to perform the complete analysis, one would need to know
all the hardware connected to the motherboard, all the hardware
connected to the expansion cards (SCSI, FC, EIDE, SATA, PATA, etc.), the
state (enabled or disabled) of each one, along with the specific
settings for each controller.  This is way outside the scope of this
email forum.

Regards,
 

-----Original Message-----
From: linux-lvm-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:linux-lvm-bounces@redhat.com]
On Behalf Of Georges Giralt
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 10:44 AM
To: LVM general discussion and development
Subject: RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

Selon pham_cuong@emc.com:

>  Instead of discussing back and forth w/o real data to discuss/explore
with
> concrete evidences, could you:
>
> A. Post the content of both the grub.conf and boot.ini files
...........Heavilly snipped.................
Hi Pham !
I think this is not totally sufficient.
You have to check the BIOS to see how and in what order it sees the
disks.
Some Bioses have a strange behavior especially when you have a SCSI card
or USB
disks.
On my Mobo, if I plug a Sata drive, the first master IDE came in third
position,
right after the sata disk and the SCSI DVDrom which is still lugged on.
Do not
ask me why it sees this as a disk (and even if there is nothing into
it).
So I admire the Grub people as they've made a terrific job ;-)
-- 

_______________________________________________
linux-lvm mailing list
linux-lvm@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm
read the LVM HOW-TO at http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/

RE: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[michael]

On Wed, 2007-12-19 at 09:33 -0500, pham_cuong@emc.com wrote: 
> Instead of discussing back and forth w/o real data to discuss/explore with concrete evidences, could you:
> 
> A. Post the content of both the grub.conf and boot.ini files


mkb@veri:~$ sudo cat /boot/grub/grub.conf
# grub.conf generated by anaconda
#
# Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this
file
# NOTICE:  You have a /boot partition.  This means that
#          all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
#          root (hd0,0)
#          kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00
#          initrd /initrd-version.img
#boot=/dev/sda
default=0
timeout=30
splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
hiddenmenu
title Fedora (2.6.23.8-34.fc7)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.23.8-34.fc7 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00
rhgb agp=off #MKB: added agp=off
        initrd /initrd-2.6.23.8-34.fc7.img
title Fedora (2.6.22.4-65.fc7)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.22.4-65.fc7 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00
rhgb agp=off #MKB: added agp=off
        initrd /initrd-2.6.22.4-65.fc7.img
title WinXP
      map (hd0) (hd1)
      map (hd1) (hd0)
      rootnoverify (hd1,0)
      chainloader +1


mkb@veri:~$ cat /mnt/winXP/boot.ini 
[boot loader]
timeout=1
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect



> B. Tell us the physical position of each of the drive, and

can't open case but there's 2 SATA drives one of 500GB (Fedora/LVM) and
the other of 750GB (XP and a ext3 partition)


> C. The current BIOS setting

the usual setting I use is first try to boot from 500GB and then from
750GB

> D. Any observed behavior with the settings stated in A,B, and C.

(a) with BIOS HD boot order [500,750], and select WinXP, it starts to
boot XP and I see the XP logo/splash with the moving blue bar, then it
goes blank and the HD light is on for a couple of minutes but then
nothing more happens apart from the occasional flicker of the HD light

(b) with BIOS HD boot order [500,750], and select WinXP, but hit F8 and
select 'safe mode' it does boot into safe mode XP although the USB mouse
doesn't work. I see a 0 byte C drive and the expected 10 GB E drive

(c) with order [750, 500] then I get the same behaviour as (a), (b)
depending if I don't/do hit F8 and don't/do select 'safe mode'

I'll try wiping the XP and reinstalling from scratch! Although I'm
beginning to think using 'vmplayer' and not having to reboot into XP is
a better option!

Thanks, Michael
> 

Re: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[Chris Cox]

On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 14:28 +0000, michael wrote:
> I'm looking for a solution for (re-)installing WinXP on my slave disk
> when I have Fedora and LVM on the master disk. In the past I've opened
> up the box and unplugged the Fedora/LVM disk in order for WinXP to
> install okay. But this seems much too drastic. Even swapping disk order
> (in BIOS) doesn't help - WinXP installation sits there "forever" when
> checking current config.
> 
> Whilst I cannot find any definite reference stating "MS WinXP cannot
> handle LVM" it does seem to be the culprit. 
> 
> Anybody got any such definitive references or other help?

Do the "remove the Linux disk and move he XP disk" technique
you mentioned to install WinXP onto
what it believes will be the primary disk.... then...

Then switch things to put the Linux drive back as the
primary and the WinXP as the secondary.

You can try something like this inside of grub.  Notice the
map commands in particular.

title WinXP
map (hd0) (hd1)
map (hd1) (hd0)
root (hd1,0)
savedefault
makeactive
chainloader +1

Let us know if this works for you.

Re: [linux-lvm] won't dual boot: 2 disks and LVM

[cs]

On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 17:02 -0600, Chris Cox wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 14:28 +0000, michael wrote:
> > I'm looking for a solution for (re-)installing WinXP on my slave disk
> > when I have Fedora and LVM on the master disk. In the past I've opened
> > up the box and unplugged the Fedora/LVM disk in order for WinXP to
> > install okay. But this seems much too drastic. Even swapping disk order
> > (in BIOS) doesn't help - WinXP installation sits there "forever" when
> > checking current config.
> > 
> > Whilst I cannot find any definite reference stating "MS WinXP cannot
> > handle LVM" it does seem to be the culprit. 
> > 
> > Anybody got any such definitive references or other help?
> 
> Do the "remove the Linux disk and move he XP disk" technique
> you mentioned to install WinXP onto
> what it believes will be the primary disk.... then...
> 
> Then switch things to put the Linux drive back as the
> primary and the WinXP as the secondary.
> 
> You can try something like this inside of grub.  Notice the
> map commands in particular.
> 
> title WinXP
> map (hd0) (hd1)
> map (hd1) (hd0)
> root (hd1,0)
> savedefault
> makeactive
> chainloader +1
> 
> Let us know if this works for you.

It doesn't! This is exactly what I tried and it just hangs...