From: "George Spelvin" <linux-gpGsJRJZ3PBBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
To: mtk.manpages-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org,
nmav-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org
Cc: linux-man-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
linux-gpGsJRJZ3PBBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org,
mpm-VDJrAJ4Gl5ZBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org,
tytso-3s7WtUTddSA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Update the random(4) documentation towards a more accurate view on /dev/urandom
Date: 25 Apr 2016 11:46:05 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20160425154605.7445.qmail@ns.horizon.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1461574090.32558.45.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
I like the bit about indeterminate delays.
Removing the examples of high quality randomness I'm less fond of;
the whole idea is to inform people who don't quite understand what the
general terms mean. Good enough for one-time pads is a design goal
of /dev/random.
The whole language about "if not X. then a pseudorandom number generator
is used" is actually pretty confusing now that I read it. It implies
some sort of mode switch which doen't exist.
The bit about early boot is actually not as much of an issue as you think.
Even /dev/urandom will stall early on boot until a minimum initial seed
(128 bits at present) has been acumulated. (grep for "urandom_init_wait")
How about something more like (draft, not final edit):
A read from the \fI/dev/urandom\fP device will not block
waiting for more entropy.
+If the estimated fresh entropy is not sufficient, a \fI/dev/urandom\fP
+will produce output anyway, relying on the cryptographic primitives in
+the driver's pseudo-random number generator to ensure that the output,
+although correlated with previous output in an information theoretic
+sense (it exceeds the unicity distance), is secure for all practical
+purposes.
+
+(One exception: even \fI/dev/urandom\fP will block during early boot until
+a minimum initial seed is accumulated.
+This is currently 128 bits.
+The message "random: nonblocking pool is initialized" appears in the
+kernel logs when this is complete.)
+
+Although the CPRNG is quite robust, and no attack is available in the
+current unclassified literature, it is theoretically possible that such
+an attack exists.
I don't like the bit about "use /dev/random or getrandom(2)"; while
getrandom(2) should be mentioned in "see also", the equivalent is
"getrandom(..., GRND_RANDOM)". It's the flag, no the syscall.
Either don't mention it here, or mention the flag.
I strongly dislike the deletion of the "as a general rule" advice.
Specific recommendations are very valuable.
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2016-04-25 15:46 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 39+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2016-04-25 8:48 [PATCH] Update the random(4) documentation towards a more accurate view on /dev/urandom Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
[not found] ` <1461574090.32558.45.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-04-25 15:46 ` George Spelvin [this message]
[not found] ` <20160425154605.7445.qmail-HzZAx2gCgqrSUeElwK9/Pw@public.gmane.org>
2016-04-26 14:46 ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
[not found] ` <1461681983.15804.76.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-04-26 16:58 ` George Spelvin
[not found] ` <20160426165847.5804.qmail-HzZAx2gCgqrSUeElwK9/Pw@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-09 15:26 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
[not found] ` <8a990d27-1fc2-8358-f9d3-c9474d6d8616-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10 8:21 ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
[not found] ` <1478766102.2642.12.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10 11:29 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-08-01 11:48 ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
[not found] ` <1470052099.2926.6.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-20 8:37 ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
[not found] ` <1476952646.2522.10.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-21 7:21 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
[not found] ` <8a5e82db-6f8a-2426-4a68-feab205bca57-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-21 14:07 ` Stephan Mueller
[not found] ` <2402524.TIv9Kdt40z-gNvIQDDl/k7Ia13z/PHSgg@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-21 14:38 ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
[not found] ` <1477060710.3888.14.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-21 14:55 ` Stephan Mueller
2016-10-21 16:33 ` Theodore Ts'o
[not found] ` <20161021163314.cvhjgr4s7lfzdsve-AKGzg7BKzIDYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-21 16:50 ` Stephan Mueller
[not found] ` <4610047.a51zB7LfZj-gNvIQDDl/k7Ia13z/PHSgg@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-21 17:56 ` Theodore Ts'o
[not found] ` <20161021175633.5x5mp2xv3wq4ejjf-AKGzg7BKzIDYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-21 18:00 ` Stephan Mueller
2016-11-01 9:35 ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
[not found] ` <1477992912.3769.22.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-09 14:58 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-11-09 15:23 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
[not found] ` <b07fb334-149d-cf65-74f3-1d1951e5981b-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10 8:54 ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
[not found] ` <1478768067.2642.23.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10 9:11 ` Laurent Georget
[not found] ` <3b7ba39b-0434-47ca-7857-257f3c99266b-AyimVQWTEHzsq35pWSNszA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10 11:56 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-11-10 11:50 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
[not found] ` <e5c1f87c-aad0-b526-a346-74348a36c2a3-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10 11:53 ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
[not found] ` <1478778837.2642.26.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10 11:56 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
[not found] ` <05152136-6943-8ada-3d65-51ef4ce9c1b1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10 14:19 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-11-10 14:20 ` [PATCH] random.4: Improve discussion or urandom, blocking reads, and signals Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
[not found] ` <4a8c573c-0c19-29d0-248e-74c088968806-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-11 10:28 ` Laurent Georget
[not found] ` <d5eca965-c8b9-51e5-6acb-172e47f85ba0-vbcOdlJ0SulGWvitb5QawA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-11 11:51 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-11-12 12:25 ` New random(7) page for review Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
[not found] ` <cb25213c-a70d-cbf1-6a42-959dcdc1f202-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-12 14:03 ` Laurent Georget
[not found] ` <54e6e40c-b840-c773-e739-7faed9664411-AyimVQWTEHzsq35pWSNszA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-15 6:19 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-11-13 22:20 ` Theodore Ts'o
[not found] ` <20161113222041.ypnz3sdm3fmjprnn-AKGzg7BKzIDYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-15 6:41 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-11-14 8:06 ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
[not found] ` <1479110801.2624.2.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-15 6:10 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-11-11 16:05 ` [PATCH] random.4: Improve discussion or urandom, blocking reads, and signals Theodore Ts'o
[not found] ` <20161111160514.yrlfteowdz4qar76-AKGzg7BKzIDYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-12 10:54 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
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