From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD62C27C47 for ; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 13:22:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S229848AbjJ1NWF (ORCPT ); Sat, 28 Oct 2023 09:22:05 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:45886 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229521AbjJ1NWE (ORCPT ); Sat, 28 Oct 2023 09:22:04 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-x336.google.com (mail-ot1-x336.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::336]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 43F8DE1 for ; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 06:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x336.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-6ce322b62aeso1846674a34.3 for ; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 06:22:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1698499321; x=1699104121; darn=vger.kernel.org; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ojqQgyN7Ck7eQND/hLRtAHWPo5dyybSuWT0gsv3Afz4=; b=EJqqJ+VPMsicQjNAsCQVqrZJ5W30PmC5PYR26wVh1SqKn8riWiAhQi9h4Ock8Mgwbh IaOFiqsB+a4vWo7kyYiURkvfIjYRiER2+FfLfuzRf9pkyM/XgPGVDVVZ8ZCi7DRizejt 20cgz4j1HW/0DDPFVqfcd3nH5pKpP4D68pzzas/DJ1so7E6WOkAZDWVYfOTwm5VUk/Yz nrU4rvUEMeRFLVl9KVC4KlZ0585RnB1Cgl1A+mP9Vmj+sS/UegG4CbjuK6Ezgz04Zd9r We4t46knLZRDFkDKdRRk9FOXkYinwBbTTnIlnjkOnK89Pl+LFuHDvnjIpndJToKZxxKo lzmg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1698499321; x=1699104121; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=ojqQgyN7Ck7eQND/hLRtAHWPo5dyybSuWT0gsv3Afz4=; b=v7j2y4b2btKekcu1iziyazkeASnXJVNjDxTTKdbwj43SKpAnuZnQl4wR0FaHM/6pbu 64n5pHBptfKKKa+IEcS9pZZTnDCfhEwSklyOjoijf9ILmBDYNhnFScS3UYKxL1G36N8o FlaeA1OZBTFZ5pUYPomHb63//MAfn0I3qIaQ3qimkaOGe7/WKUOpzzU9bnr2pH0Y18Jb sle2jXQJsMnHxzluEZBnTkZuVyn1omca4zbZfYrmNPzVrnFFfjaJrfnxV3JTOYDIUVf6 BFaJeFQoL+L/+1LmutfvmbViINmoCRxoJdrXQsS51w3kgUISEEEX8q8Md+Ti92kdnC9X Ezbw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwGUW9dqXtMs05KJhaQyhZk8dh4gTOK9Gj4neUtOH7l4fOkJAUx K446Pizg6nZcKD+Ov0A0IiRRt3leml8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEMuWm2CpPphlZQDLqNK0Yf/vp0UygjkXBmzBsuL7LcZHRMWhzXQhzfzy0oUx2r/8eYxDMyQg== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:65d4:0:b0:6b7:5687:8a9e with SMTP id z20-20020a9d65d4000000b006b756878a9emr5662620oth.15.1698499321521; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 06:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from illithid (ip68-12-97-90.ok.ok.cox.net. [68.12.97.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k5-20020a0568301be500b006cd2c236b8csm658813otb.3.2023.10.28.06.22.00 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 28 Oct 2023 06:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 08:21:59 -0500 From: "G. Branden Robinson" To: Alejandro Colomar Cc: linux-man@vger.kernel.org, groff@gnu.org Subject: Re: `\c`, mdoc(7), and man(7) extension macros (was: [PATCH 1/2] man*/: srcfix) Message-ID: <20231028132159.zkf6fh34mmfjzu37@illithid> References: <20231025185424.txreg7q47zigo24j@illithid> <20231026125835.phpfjhz6xbsde33d@illithid> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2ztqc5cbn7glsi4t" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org --2ztqc5cbn7glsi4t Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alex, At 2023-10-26T16:12:36+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote: > Yup. I have similar feelings about C++, BTW. I have a hard time > understanding complex languages. I prefer simpler languages. Most > features can be implemented as library code, without complicating the > language. Just know that following this road will take you to Lisp. Or Scheme. Or Forth. ;-) (Personally, I wish regular C _had_ put memcpy and memset (or bzero :P ) in the language.) > Yep, I have 2/2 locally. Maybe reply to the mail CCing vger, keeping > only the commit message, so that readers of the list can get a notice > of what MR.sed is. Okay. I'll aim for that for v5. > I always make the mistake of writing MS instead of MT, out of inertia > of having an 'S' for the start! :D Yes, that's what Doug McIlroy thought might happen. > The others have nicer mnemonics that work for me; I wouldn't change > them. And well, just for changing MT, I wouldn't do it. >=20 > > SY -> NS (syNopsis start) > > YS -> NE (syNopsis end) >=20 > Hmmm, no; I don't like it. Fair enough. I venture these things on the off chance that they're brilliant strokes that will greatly increase the appeal of learning man(7). > Regarding PP, LP, and P, what's the history of them? Why do we have > the 3? I'm willing to reduce them to just one. We covered this in another thread, but as Ingo noted, there is no hope of actually _retiring_ any of these. At most they can be documentarily deprecated and a high "-rCHECKSTYLE" setting can gripe about them. groff man(7) formats every Seventh Edition Unix (1979) man page correctly as far as I can tell, and I don't want to ever give that up. (This is a slightly different objective from preserving perfect compatibility with 7th edition's tmac.an. I have no qualms about discarding compatibility with details of macro package behavior that no one relied upon for practical purposes.) 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